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Discussion Starter #1
Why do we feel the need to define our equipment and define ourselves by what we use? Why do folks feel the need to further divide the hunting community when our opposition is so united? What will it take to finally get all hunters/archers to pull together and work for what's best for hunting/archery?

I pray it doesn't take a gigantic threat to make it so. Time wasted to act as one would/could be all the time a well organized opposition could use to truly damage us. Stop worrying about the tackle others choose to use and spend the time mastering your own. Celebrate others success like you would your own and hunting/archery would be in a much better place.


See what you went and started Dwayne!?! :wink:
 

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I've been guilty of that! Thanks for reminding me to quit being so "ignert" vermonster!

It's bad enough that anti's are "ignert" of our sports, and than here we go and act "ignert" towards one another!

hnh
 

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Hello vermonster,

Why do we feel the need to define our equipment and define ourselves by what we use? Why do folks feel the need to further divide the hunting community when our opposition is so united? What will it take to finally get all hunters/archers to pull together and work for what's best for hunting/archery?
The day we get others to understand that "Ego" and "Materialistic" is not about Archery. Unfortunately, there are so many "I am better than you, because my bow is a stick bow, Rose thorn Rest, tied on by Horse tail hair. And since you shoot paper, you have no idea how to place an arrow to kill an animal. :confused:


Stop worrying about the tackle others choose to use and spend the time mastering your own. Celebrate others success like you would your own and hunting/archery would be in a much better place.
Bingo! Thats it in a nutshell. Well said. Mastering your tackle means that there may be times you must retrace your steps to relearn or profect your present or future tackle. Swallowing pride is too hard for some, so they go to other sites that allows them not to swallow that pride.

Lets put it this way...I whip out my 29# Sky Medalist all the time...And I shoot it right along with the biggies. I once had a biggie come up and say (because I was definitely the best shot there by a long shot) you shoot better because that is a light bow. Well, I said "lets trade". We did. And I still outshot *every one of them* (there was about 5 in all) using their "biggie" bow. They were amazed and asked how I learned to shoot so well.

I told them: They were all over bowed (because they were snap shooting, collapsing on release, and becoming rubbery arms after about 30 shots), and needed to completely redo their form...it sucked. They did not like my choice of words, but I told it bluntly and honest.

Six months later (about) one of those guys came up to me and politely said something in the nature of this:

Dwayne, when you first vocalized your opinion to use on the range while you were shooting, you were honest and hard. None of us guys like it, but after a while, I finally began to understand where you were coming from.

He then asked me to teach him how to shoot. And that I did. His paper score went from a 180 - 220 to 260 - 265 in a couple of months. His buddies? Well, they harassed him a little and said shooting paper is worthless. It doesn't teach you how to kill the animal. I can now place my bet on my student for the proper kill. And guess what? We STILL hunt together after all these years.

The better shot we become, the better Archery will progress. It is not about the equipment we shoot, but it is about being able to use that equipment to the best of *ITS* ability. (Notice I did not say *our* ability). Our abilty will NEVER be as good as the BOWS ability. Thus when we strive to shoot beyond *our* ability to push a "bows" ability to the max, we have accomplished a unique and wonderful goal.

Dwayne

See what you went and started Dwayne!?!
I have a habit of doing such things... and getting myself into trouble.


Let me say one thing ok? This goes for all of AT (especially here in the traditional section where my comments have touched some sensitive buttons.)

I want to thank each and everyone one of you for helping me out, understanding that what I say is not a personal attack or something made to be malice of any kind. I have spoken out many times, and just "said the truth". You know where I stand, and I have not hidden anything back. This has touched some sore buttons with some, and I apologize to those people. I am only trying to be honest and upfront... I guess it is my personality. But I do want all to enjoy the sport, become the best shots they can, and *best of all* hope to shake hands with many of you as I can as great friends. (whether we agree on things or not). Thanks for those who "stuck their neck out" for me, in some really hot and uncomfortable situations. If I can do the same, I will.

To each and all... God Bless! and lets keep Archery alive, strong, and fun for all.

Dwayne
 

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Discussion Starter #4
You get a new ergonomic keyboard or something Dwayne? LOL
 

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Re

good one... vermonster


I think it is the same reason why people put their titles in the signatures. To announce to everyone that 1)their opinions do matter 2)they are important.

Kinda like tootin your own horn.... ROFL


But i really do GET what you are saying.. If you are closed minded to one thing.. that is all you will know.(Cant learn anything here and everyone will be the same to you) If you are open minded, your possibilities are endless. (Always learning here and people will seem to change around you)

Just my 2cents
 

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ciscokid said:
I think it is the same reason why people put their titles in the signatures. To announce to everyone that 1)their opinions do matter 2)they are important.

Kinda like tootin your own horn.... ROFL


But i really do GET what you are saying.. If you are closed minded to one thing.. that is all you will know.(Cant learn anything here and everyone will be the same to you) If you are open minded, your possibilities are endless. (Always learning here and people will seem to change around you)

Just my 2cents
It's the age old issue of "I spent more money on my equipment, so that makes me better than you." I spent half as much and have twice the fun!!

The way I look at it, I never stop learning. There is always something to learn or relearn. If anyone has ever been helped by someone, then that person needs to help someone else to repay that debt. If we can keep that up, we'll be alot better off.

Last night I shot in a 3D league. A couple of those "Matt**ws" shooters were looking at my 3 year old PSE and smiling and snickering. About halfway through I hit 4 straight 10's on targets they got 5's and 8's on. I just smiled and kept on going. I dont really care what you shoot, just get out there and shoot and have FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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This philosophy is a good way to improve archery as a whole.
Quietly going about the business of paying your dues and honing the basics is the best way to show people you're serious and know what you're doing. The lack of this is being met by n00bs in every sport who replace skill with technology - or try to.
Being non-judgemental and good at what you do is how you get n00bs and veterans who want to know what you know.
This applies, across the board, to every sport I'm involved in - hiking, backpacking, motorcycling, competitive shooting, and ARCHERY.
 

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Hello Vermonster,

You get a new ergonomic keyboard or something Dwayne? LOL
How did you know??? :)

Dwayne (rubbing his carpel tunnel sore fingers....)
 

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i think we are all guilty of that. it is jsut that somethiings are a little harder to do at first than others and therefore we think if we get good at it we are better, maybe we are. probably not. it is all a matter of perspeftive casue we want to feel that little bit of pride that comes from knowing we can do things the harder way.

but there will alwasy be something harder than that:)
 

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vermonster13 said:
Why do we feel the need to define our equipment and define ourselves by what we use?
That's easy.... because us trad bowhunters are SPECIAL and we will remind everyone of that nearly every chance we get. So what if others don't like it? If they were doing it the hard way like we are, they would understand this. If I have to explain this any further, I'm just wasting my time. But hey, I'm here to let everyone know that my way is the purist way and the only way, so I will continue to explain. There is nothing more righteous than to take bowhunting to the ultimate challenge by shooting game animals up close and personal with primitive-like equipment and not really aiming or using any gadgets whatsoever. I AM A TRAD BOWHUNTER and proud of it. You must listen to my wisdom and follow my expert guidance... there is no other type of bowhunter in the world that is in-touch with nature as much as me. Banish any thoughts of using equipment that might make it easier... this is about making it as difficult as possible, and by doing so, making it even more special. Join the SPECIAL club today and receive many accolades as to how beautiful your custom bow looks, and how wonderful those artsy cedar-smelling arrows look. And don't forget the heart-felt sympathies and slap on the back encouragements to get back out there after missing again and again. Also included is a tutorial on burning the hole and how to keep it a mystical secret known only to those that are members of this very special, spiritual club we refer to as "traditional" bowhunters.
 

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Piney,

I sense an overflowing of sarcasm ;)

To bad there are a few who feel exactly as you described...and to bad there are a few whose egos have been hurt or offended by those same narrow minded people.

Ray ;)
 

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To be totally honest about all this Ray, the few you speak of are just that.... a few and not the majority. And they seem to be getting fewer and fewer as the years go by. Some years ago, it was very common to run into that type of trad bowhunter, but I really do think it's getting better. But of course, there are always the new ones who swallow it hook, line, and sinker without giving it much thought. But why should they think about it much?.... the ideologies I summarized are what many of them came looking for in the first place, lol. Most of us know it's not really difficult, but at the same time one can claim it is.

And for those you speak of about their egos being hurt or offended.... well, I've come to be less offended by such crap, after all... I was in the "club" for some time and it really did wonders for the ego, so I can feel their pain.... or is it joy?? Honestly, I don't really care how it makes them feel (even if it seems rather silly to me nowadays). The main thing is that type of attitude doesn't get so carried away with the "we have more values then they do" kind of thing. It's rather non-productive when that type of thinking seeps into the overall picture of what bowhunting should be for ALL bowhunters.

Vermoster makes a good point that we are not doing much good by stepping on each other's toes when it comes to defining who, what, and how a bowhunter goes about his own business.

And to the second question....
"What will it take to finally get all hunters/archers to pull together and work for what's best for hunting/archery?

Actually, I think it's already happening and I believe much of it is on "our" shoulders (the trad bowhunting community). Progressiveness in regard to learning the actual archery aspects of archery and simmering down on the so-called special bowhunting ideologies that trad bowhunting attempts to represent. With more focus spent on becoming better archers (rather than just good enuff bowhunters), trad archers as a group will no longer be looked upon as "mediocre", and that is when the gap bewteen "us" and "them" will narrow to the point of mutual respect. This will prove to be a strengthening in the overall archery/bowhunting community and we will finally look at things the same way, instead of differently.

Now, I'm sure some folks are gonna say that it's "those other guys" that are so snobbish and egotistical about their shooting prowess and it's them that should step back and take another look. But IMO, why would anyone blame them? Shooting well is part of the game of archery, whether it's target archery or bowhunting.
 

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I stopped going to a club for the exact reasons stated above. I copped crap because I used a compound. A few people in another club laughed at me becuase I used a recurve (without sights). I don't think I'd join an archery club again.
 

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Piney,

Yea...thank God they are not the majority...at least in regards to the bigger scale...but they often are the ones speaking the loudest.

It's RARELY productive to support something that's not true or supporting someone who bases their opinions on a damaged ego and distorted beliefs.

Ray ;)
 

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Tell me...What is best for hunting/archery???

Give me a real situation where this "division" has created an actual threat??



Thanks
Chris
 

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Chris,

You won't really see the division until you go to some local 3D shoots, join a club, spend some more time on the internet reading topics like these or hear that some group is trying to get a special season opened up for people who believe JUST as they do.

As far as it being a threat...that depends on what you feel is a threat.

As far as what's best for hunting/archery...well, it's a personal one that should be based on reality, someone's personal goals and limitations.

Ray ;)
 
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