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whisker biscuit @ thumb ring

1625 Views 19 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  tarzancoe
Hello all,

I shoot an X7 @ 31.5", 65#. obviously I have to be very careful with finger pinching. Aside from tabs vs. glove et al, I am going to setup the following:
- whisker biscuit (dunno right spelling typing on my cell phone)
- instead of a mediterranean release, I am going to try a mongolian release, acquiring a couple of thumb rings. The theory behind this release type is that it will eliminate pinching. Of course, the drawback is having to learn a new style. Nevertheless - am going to order a couple of ring either from www.salukibows.com or directly fron Grozer in Hungary.

From what I have found out online, the thumb release will also minimize arro lateral deflection, thus making a release rest more feasible.

I will post results of this experiment in a timely manner.

If anybody has experience shooting compounds with thumb release, please share your thoughts :)

Cheers!
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I'm interested, I've seen them in 3River's Archery, but, I have no idea how they're actually used.
 

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With a thumb release you'll have lateral deflection just as you would with a fingers release except in the opposite direction. I believe that right-hand drawing mongol archers shot over their fingers or off a leather wrap or shelf with their arrows on the right side of the bow. Archer's paradox would force the shaft into the bow if it rested on the left side.

The whisker biscuit's 360 degree capture prevents the shaft from flexing as much as it normally might and minimise the paradox effect. It would be equally effective for thumb rings or fingers.

:cocktail:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes, you still have deflection, and yes, they used to shoot resting the arrow in the opposite side of the riser, as the arrow tends to "fall" upon the left side upon draw. I also read that the deflection is lesser than with fingers.

I suppose the theoretical advantage relies on the pinching being minimized. Also, the release is much cleaner as the point of contact is one finger only.

Here are a few links to traditional Mongolian archery info, and to thumb release. I have included a few youtube videos that show it.

http://www.atarn.org/FAQ/thumbring.htm
http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ajcd/archery/faq/asianbow.html#shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_bow#Shooting_technique
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thum+ring+bow&search_type=&aq=f
http://margo.student.utwente.nl/sagi/artikel/steps/
http://www.english-longbow.co.uk/largepics/Thumb Ring Mongolian.html

this page is interesting on ancient bows and arrows, somewhat related but did not find any reference to thumb rings but here it is :)
http://margo.student.utwente.nl/sagi/artikel/
 

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I just learned of thumb rings this weekend at our local Ren Faire. They do rest the arrow on the opposite side of the bow, so you may have to move your rest way in toward the riser, or shoot a left handed bow. The intent was to speed shooting from horseback. The Mongols would carry a cluster of arrows in the fingers of their bow hand and nock them one at a time, pulling with their thumb with the protection of the ring extending over the pad of the thumb. The index finger curls around the thumb and the knuckle presses against the string and nock, providing lateral pressure to hold the arrow against the side of the bow (assisted in part by finger and thumb tips of the bow hand). They would relax their index finger, allowing the string to slip off the end of the thumb. This allowed them to fire arrows at about one a second while at full gallop without the arrow bouncing off the back of their hand which would have happened if they used fingers and shot in the conventional fashion. Oriental archers used pretty much this same technique.

There's a book on the history of the thumb ring called "Kay's Thumb Ring Book". You can find it at www.sevenmeadowsarchery.com among other places.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Dave, tx for the book link. I have learned about contemporary traditional mongol shooters and they draw the arrow on the left side (the normal side for us). All in all, there are several unanswered questions in regards of using such a release style with a compound.that is why I want to go ahead and try it.
 

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All the pulling pressure is on the thumb. The fingers don't hold any of the weight, they just keep the thumb in place. I dislocated my right thumb about six months ago, so I'm afraid to try it on anything but a light bow. I'm not even sure I can curl my thumb in enough to make it work. I'll probably end up buying a rather light horse bow for fun shooting with my wife, so I might try it then.

I'm interested to hear how it turns out for you. Keep us posted.
 

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With a thumb release you'll have lateral deflection just as you would with a fingers release except in the opposite direction. I believe that right-hand drawing mongol archers shot over their fingers or off a leather wrap or shelf with their arrows on the right side of the bow. Archer's paradox would force the shaft into the bow if it rested on the left side.

The whisker biscuit's 360 degree capture prevents the shaft from flexing as much as it normally might and minimise the paradox effect. It would be equally effective for thumb rings or fingers.

:cocktail:
I agree here....the thumb ring release actually prefers the arrow to be on the right side of the riser for proper paradox...biscuit might take care of it or it might behave rather strangely. Give it a shot.
 

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I looked into thumb rings about a year ago, more out of curiosity than actually using one. I couldn't find anything specifically referrencing how the mongols shot their bows only that they did use thumb rings made of metal or bone. Nothing had been found that was written during that time. As far as I know, anyway.

I believe that current thumb ring archers are in the same situation that original archers were in when they discovered that you could launch a small spear with a stick and string. Archers paradox was an unknown concept. Whatever worked best thru trial and error was SOP. They learned from the fathers or from the best archer in the village/tribe. Each village may have shot differently. Europeans settled on wrapping two or three fingers around the string and there is evidence of archers pinching the nock between their thumb and forefinger. Ouch.

You have the advantage of a shelf and a true center-shot with the X7 plus the biscuit should prevent the shaft from touching the risor.

Good luck, good shooting and thanks for the updates.

:cocktail:
 

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I've shot Mike's thumb ring and it's an interesting setup. Still, I much prefer fingers over a thumb ring or other release.
 

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I would think that the WB is the best rest to use if you are shooting a right handed bow with a thumb ring. Normally the arrow will flex into the riser with a tab or glove, but with a thumb ring it will flex the opposite way. So with a coventional rest and thumb ring the arrow would have nothing to press against, with the WB it will push on the bristles on the other side.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
flex paradox

I understand that the arrow would flex in the opposite way. That is why I thought in using the WB, for exactly that issue. Yet, I see many examples of people that know what they are doing shooting with thumb ring and in the "normal" side of the window. This include Mongolian shooters, Lucas from Saluki bows in a couple of instances, etc. It does not make sense, doesn't it. I wonder if using the attached loop in the string takes some of that paradox away as you are not holding the string directly.

It might be similar to using the whiskerbuiscuit for fingers; theoretically it will not absorb all the paradox but it does a good enough job that if you shoot well, it will not matter in the real world.
 

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Mike's rig looks nice, but it seems like he's "cheating" a bit by using a loop. That eliminates the reverse flexing of the shaft that would otherwise require the arrow to be on the other side of the bow. I've talked to shooters who can successfully shoot a thumb ring on the traditional side. They don't know why it works better for them, but it just does. It just goes to show that not all things work for all shooters.
 

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I have tried a one finger "D" loop at low poundage with a glove/supported like for bowling. It worked fairly well until I moved up in poundage. I have not tried the thumb ring which may work with the higher poundage? In one of the above video the guy who shot with the thumb ring was also shooting a 120lb long bow the traditional way? Anyway, it will be nice to see if you get it to work and maybe you can start a new 3d class called "thumbing it" LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Poundage with thumbring

I have read that as a matter of fact, it is easier to draw a heavy bow with a thumb ring than with fingers. It is supposed to do also with the angle of the wrist/arm.

here is an excerpt that talks about paradox and so forth. I am also copying the link. note that, on top of page, this is part two of 3 pages about Turkish bows.

"While the string is loose it “rolls” on the narrow edge of the thumb ring, and the arrow shaft doesn’t bend as much as it would when released with three fingers. The release is sharper and cleaner than 3-finger release. Although this feature does not completely eliminate the need for a proper spine size, thumb release shooters worry less about the perfectly matching spine. If thumb release is mastered, the bow compatible with a wider spectrum of spine shaft, the initial velocity of the arrow is higher.

http://www.turkishculture.org/pages.php?ChildID=170&ParentID=15&ID=71&ChildID1=756&miMore=1


Cheers,
 

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Here's a clip from the above article. "Many enthusiasts claim that the best way of shooting with a thumb release is without any ring, but it’s clear that drawing heavy bows without any aid would not be possible."
 
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