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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
So much more I wanted to write but this iPad isn't that great for typing. I'm all ears help me out!
I wonder if you know guy larkin from the reservation?. I knew him and his mother back 35 years ago. Good people :)
As to the ALL Mainers.... Of course not everyone is so ignorant but the vast majority are. Someone like you needs to get back into the civilian force ASAP and save these people from themselves.

Here is the way it goes...

You cannot plant one tree and expect anything to flourish. Especially if it is a spruce. The regrowth needs to be either natural or mixed. But we know that's not going to happen because Maine doesn't even own it's own land anymore. To change, the leases must be allowed to run out and then change can be implemented.
A state mandate to eliminate all cedar harvest would be a good start in front of those lease renewals.

The first thing that would benefit the state herd is a change of hunting season dates and methods of hunting. States that limit rifles in deer season and keep firearms seasons short are the states with all the trophy deer. Eliminate guns during the rut would be a good start. Give the people a longer hunting season (oct.1 - Jan.1) and have a one week firearm at the end of season.

Eliminate the buck only rule and allow one deer either sex. Establish no hunting zones where deer can multiply and then spread out into surrounding area's. Do not implement a points system that regulates what deer gets harvested based on the rack. Eliminate the coyote as a game animal and allow year around hunting of this pest.

There are a few ideas off the top of my head. Have to get going now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
As with most knuckle draggers, guns are next to God and if you even suggested not allowing firearms hunting during the rut you would have to do so from a protected area such as the pope mobile. ;)
Under the circumstances, guns are killing the deer hunting in Maine and people who hunt with guns are the third rail of deer management talks. Suggest that old man Mosley and his cronies cant hunt with their trusty 30-06 during the rut (for whatever reason) and that's the last word they will ever hear you say.... because they will stop listening.
You want to compromise and give them their guns?.... then it is primitive muzzle loaders and shot guns only. Flint lock and smooth bore only. Believe it or not, there are excellent trophy deer states that have these types of restrictions.

I was on a Maine hunting forum last week where 1/2 (or better) of the people speaking to the deer herd were in denial. At least 1/2 stated that the talk of low deer numbers were exaggerated and anyone saying the deer herd was in trouble was a PETA supporter or worse.
Ignorance on parade. If it was not so funny it would be sad. Between the state and people like these, there will never be a resurgence of the Maine Trophy herd.

The state needs to make the wildlife agency an independent agency that is not answerable to anyone in office in order to side step the corruption of state politics. As long as Augusta has the final say in anything, nothing will be accomplished. The only other hope is that O'bama will figure out a way to confiscate everyone's guns... and then the deer will at least have one less obstacle to overcome.

Maybe between Maine's low birth rate, generational declines in hunters afield and folks like me leaving, someday the deer may have a chance. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
While I am on a roll...

Poaching.

We all know it goes on and it goes on more than most people would even guess... knowing what they know. The director of the hospital in greenville even got nabbed jacking a deer a few years ago. Come On!.
WHY?..
Well for the same reason that if I (as a jacker) want to go Moose hunting I dont wait around to draw a tag... I just jack a moose and if I get caught I pay the fine. Everyone knows that if you want to jack a moose you buy a beater from the junk yard and use a gun that isn't worth $50..
When you get caught, they take your beater and that crappy rifle/shot gun and fine you $500. That's it!.
I could go Moose hunting for a thousand dollars and that's IF I got caught. :secret:

Louisiana makes felons of some wildlife violators and so should Maine. 3 years imprisonment would stop that crap!. Ever try and get a job in Maine as a felon?. Trust me... people would stop.

These are hard core examples of what is wrong and how to rectify it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
How about an earn a buck program for rifle hunters?. turn in 20 coyotes and get a doe tag. Turn in 40 coyotes and get a buck tag. turn in 60 coyotes and get a buck and a doe tag.
Why should the state pay people to hunt coyotes when people will hunt them for free ,,, if given the incentive. Now I know that everyone will btch and say that's not fair but too bad!. Hunting is not a right anymore, it is a privilege. For that privilege you either play by the rules (primitive weapons only) or work for the right to be special.
People in Maine are selfish and stupid when it comes to this topic so, NO... I don't feel bad for taking the reins and setting the goals.

Elect Me Governor!!. ;)
 

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Haha got my vote! Really like these ideas. I just see it being very difficult to get everyone to understand why we need to do this. I mean we got some monster bcks down here. Just very few of them. Really appreciate the info, I am trying to take in as much as possible. Hopefully by the time I'm retired I will b able to have some decent hunting. Our deer hunting on our reserve has been getting better and better by the year. Back when I first started hunting I was lucky to see 1 mature buck a year. Let alone get a shot. Now I see 5-6 nice bucks and many more does. Have taken a couple nice ones and I def. earned it. I mean its almost not even worth stand hunting around here you will be lucky to see deer everyday even with the best stand placement.

But this is def. one of my goals in life and I know I have a handful of people that would support me. Just life's on hold right now as I have a family to take care of and would like to get settled. Will def. be home soon as I plan on going to school while in military and learning more on this topic. Really pumped about having the opportunity to hunt other ares with great deer hunting. I've hunted Kentucky a few times and taken some nice ones there. Can only hope that maine will be this way someday.
 

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Would really love to see the season change for hunting. I Like the idea of the long bow season and short gun season. Would def. limit the number of deer killed. I see this being the easiest part to change in our hunting laws, but I believe it would be almost impossible to get logging company's to do there part
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Would really love to see the season change for hunting. I Like the idea of the long bow season and short gun season. Would def. limit the number of deer killed. I see this being the easiest part to change in our hunting laws, but I believe it would be almost impossible to get logging company's to do there part

I believe that the yards are already being addressed by the state, so if that vision is followed through on, then there is hope on that front.

The state also seems to be taking a responsible view on the predation. They are doing it all wrong and even when the numbers are starting to come down, they will put an end to it. Seen it before.
The coyote problem has to be handled as I suggested or the problem will always exist. It's not just the deer but also the small game that is being effected negatively.

As an individual (if I was living back home) I would enlist the aid of the snowmobile clubs throughout the state to eradicate the coyote during the winter. The solution is pretty easy if you have club members who are willing to go out (away from the towns) and add a few treats to the trails that are detrimental to canines.
(PM me if you want to know how to kill a pack canines fast but leave every other animal unharmed)

It is going to take individuals getting out there and doing what needs to be done because if it is left up to the state... well we see how that has been going ;)

The most important change that is needed is mindset and education. You cant get everyone on the same page when you allow them to keep and spread their ignorance. Folklore needs to go and so does opinion based on guess work. There are a lot of old deer hunters in Maine that act like old men do and you have to stop that cycle of ignorance in order to rebuild.
When you hear someone give an opinion, jump on them!. Don't allow opinions to be voiced in a crowd.... where that opinion is now effecting someones thinking due to the fact that it went unchallenged. Opinions are not facts. State facts or shut up ;)

Start a club in your area of like minded conservationists who understand deer hunting and herd development and then move out like a cancer into the surrounding communities. Educate!. Do seminars at local gun and archery clubs where you can beat the facts into the heads of these dummies. Get on forums where you can challenge and rebuke these knot heads. Start a movement in your state despite the fact that the state is against you and the citizens are against you. You will find those like you and when you get together and consistently debunk your detractors, people will take notice and start listening to you.

States like Illinois have a population that is on the same page and that is why the state does things the way they do. The state cannot do the right thing when every voter is saying don't or worse yet (like Maine) they ask for something to be done but don't want anything to be done that would change the way things have always been.
Example... you cannot simply stop the harvest of cedar and expect deer numbers to rebound if you do not also eliminate the coyote. If you allow the coyote to continue to spread then all the cedar swamps offer is a good hunting area for coyotes. You cannot stop cedar cutting and increase coyote hunting and expect that the trophy deer numbers will return when the only thing you are allowed to kill are bucks.

Do you see what I am saying?. You cannot do one thing alone.... it is too late for that. People need to take responsibility for their actions in regard to how it effects themselves and others. Stop shooting 2-3 year old deer. The average lifespan of a north woods deer is expected to fall into the 5-7 years range due to environmental conditions pertaining to weather and food alone. Maine trophies need 2/3 of those years to get to where they need to be to be considered true trophy class animals. If you can convince most people to practice passing immature Bucks then you wont need to go to a primitive weapons only stance. However... We all know that Mainers are what they are, so primitive is the way to go IMO.

The jacking mentality has to change as well. Too many Mainers ignore the actions of those around them when speaking to poaching. In my travels I have known many people who jack deer and many people who know these people. The attitude is that of acceptance to be very honest. I have been throughout the country and Maine is the only state where I have seen this mindset among a majority of the citizens. In other states a poacher doesn't need to be mindful of just the warden... they also have to be mindful of their neighbors who are likely to either call the warden or just flat out kick their butts in person. This needs to be the mindset of the majority in Maine as well if the herd is to come back to what it once was.
I don't care if you have to ride house to house wearing white sheets and a pillow case over your heads.... the good guys in Maine need to strike some fear into the hearts of these low life good 'ol boys. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Another problem that I see and have thought about is the Mainers lack of connection with the outside world. I understand that the rest of the country seems very scary and ugly in the eye's of a Mainer, who is protected on all but one side from the rest of the country but all the same... It's not all crap outside of the box that Mainer's have built for themselves. Deer hunting kicks butt out here :) Any state that can produce a tooth paste like Toms of Maine needs to get out of the box!. ;)

I understand that the internet in many parts of Maine is more of a thought than a reality but it's not the whole state. Where are the Mainers here on AT for example?. I see some but I don't see any who are involved in anything other than their own little bubble. Take this section of AT and this thread for example. I have put some pretty harsh stuff up here and what is the response?. Other than a onetime resident, you and I?. This is the problem with Maine. People in Maine are so damn laid back and lazy when it comes to anything. Ask any Mainer to get involved in anything and you will have a long day of asking before you find anyone who is willing to do something for themselves that doesn't put
something green in their pockets at the end of the day. If it isn't cash then it isn't worth the time.
God forbid that you ask them to spend time that may benefit them in ten years but will take from them in the years leading up to that payday. HA! ;)


I met one 30 something a few years ago at a fishing pond in the Dover Foxcroft area and I will never forget him. His verbal response?.... I'm from Maine and I don't give a Damn!. (I am pretty sure he was drunk ;) ) While this guy sticks out as a face in my mind, his sentiment extended to everyone in his area. The snowmobile club had maybe 3-4 members who actually wanted to do anything that would benefit the club and actually did these things. The club had almost 80 members. This is Maine as I know it. A bunch of lazy malcontents that want everything but don't want to do anything. Welfare mindset for a welfare people.... when speaking to the northern half of the state.

Central state I met a rough individual that went into detail as to how the Turkey were the worst thing to ever happen to Maine. His opinion was that the Turkey were causing the deer to starve to death. The Turkey were eating everything! ;) Central Maine personified in one individual.
I have met more people in this area that believe just this and this is because ignorance spreads like a cancer. One guy at one time had an idea and told it to another guy and that's how it started. Today (in this area) this is common knowledge. The people in this area routinely shoot turkeys (year round) and leave them lay where they fall.
Idiots!!

Down south I was met with the same mindset when speaking with fishermen about the Pike issue. Their solution was to throw the pike that they caught onto the ice and god forbid that anyone even kept one to eat ;) Ignorant people to say the very least in their views as to how the Pike had the ability to kill off the lake trout and salmon. Never mind that states like Michigan have a huge pike and trout population that coexists together... this is Maine!. ;)
Idiots!!!.

But while the majority of Mainers are extremely uneducated and in many cases unable to be educated... there is hope. People like you can be very involved even when you are not there. Educate yourself and get on the web. Find the people that need your guidance and ride the people who refuse to listen.
Be a voice!.
 

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I wonder if you know guy larkin from the reservation?. I knew him and his mother back 35 years ago. Good people :)
A.
Hmm, I know most everyone from both Reservations including j_socobasin. Mr. Socobasin is a great guy and an example of what a tribal youth should be and is.

Now Guy Larkin on the other hand is about the opposite. I worked an arson case several years ago that sent him to prison for quite some time. He decided one night to fire bomb a cops house, with the cops wife and children inside. So, I don't know the good people your referring to but, it ain't Guy Larkin...I do like his Mother though...

Now, your views on Maine deer hunting seem to be a little better in line with my thinking but not quite as extreme. Our biggest two issues are our liberal 4 week gun season. That needs to be cut by 2 weeks and open sunday hunting. The next issue is no doe hunting in the northern parts of Maine is decimating our Buck Population. Our bucks run hard during the rut and the few that ain't shot can't make it though the winter because of it. I can drive within 10 miles of my house in any direction and count 500 does (especially in Eastport) in the fall. You would be lucky to see 1 buck. Granted I live on the coast, right next to Pleasant Point so our winters are pretty mild with a lack of snow.

Coyotes are an issue but, I know tons of people hunting them. There ain't a coyote where I live that can kill a healthy deer. As I said snow is not the issue where I live on the coast. The weak bucks from the rut are the ones being killed by Coyotes.

One of the biggest predators for deer (fawns) are bears. Our mortality rate is extremely high for fawns. Where we live in Washington County, we have the highest population for bear in the State. We are know as the Blueberry Capitol of the world. We also have alot of old farms with lots of old apple orchards. Our bear tend to be a little smaller but way more abundant, though, I have seen a few 300 to 400 # bears on my bait sights. We need a spring bear hunt back state wide to decrease our Bear populations. The only Spring hunt currently in Maine are on tribal lands.

Our deer on the coast will winter near the beaches as well. Seaweed is a good alternative for cedar in the winter....
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Hmm, I know most everyone from both Reservations including j_socobasin. Mr. Socobasin is a great guy and an example of what a tribal youth should be and is.

Now Guy Larkin on the other hand is about the opposite. I worked an arson case several years ago that sent him to prison for quite some time. He decided one night to fire bomb a cops house, with the cops wife and children inside. So, I don't know the good people your referring to but, it ain't Guy Larkin...I do like his Mother though...
WOW!. I guess he has changed since I knew him :( There were a number of undesirables in his area back when we were young.... I don't doubt he ended up following their lead.
I remember Guy and I having fire making races back in the day.... Had I only known ;)

Now, your views on Maine deer hunting seem to be a little better in line with my thinking but not quite as extreme. Our biggest two issues are our liberal 4 week gun season. That needs to be cut by 2 weeks and open sunday hunting. The next issue is no doe hunting in the northern parts of Maine is decimating our Buck Population. Our bucks run hard during the rut and the few that ain't shot can't make it though the winter because of it. I can drive within 10 miles of my house in any direction and count 500 does (especially in Eastport) in the fall. You would be lucky to see 1 buck. Granted I live on the coast, right next to Pleasant Point so our winters are pretty mild with a lack of snow.

Coyotes are an issue but, I know tons of people hunting them. There ain't a coyote where I live that can kill a healthy deer. As I said snow is not the issue where I live on the coast. The weak bucks from the rut are the ones being killed by Coyotes.

One of the biggest predators for deer (fawns) are bears. Our mortality rate is extremely high for fawns. Where we live in Washington County, we have the highest population for bear in the State. We are know as the Blueberry Capitol of the world. We also have alot of old farms with lots of old apple orchards. Our bear tend to be a little smaller but way more abundant, though, I have seen a few 300 to 400 # bears on my bait sights. We need a spring bear hunt back state wide to decrease our Bear populations. The only Spring hunt currently in Maine are on tribal lands.

Our deer on the coast will winter near the beaches as well. Seaweed is a good alternative for cedar in the winter....
Don't disagree with anything highlighted above. Coyotes are killing the fawns, rabbits, turkey and grouse at a rate that should be alarming to anyone.... for an animal that has no further use other than a fur bearer... This is the reason I focus on the coyote. The black bear is another sporting animal that brings in a lot of revenue to the state and state residents. That's why I give the bear a pass.
Not saying that's right... just why.

The Sunday hunting?.... don't get me started on that! ;)

Back to the Bear....
This state does not regulate hunting as needed by region and this is why some area's are good and others are not. While I appreciate your bear dilemma (I worked those blueberry fields when I was a teenager) I have not seen the need to over hunt area's in the north.... specifically the Baker lake area. Houlton?... yeah, they may need that spring season as well. :)
 

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I spend most my time 8n the maine forest.
Theres no longer any adult trees.
Bairly any deer or game cept rabbits n coyotes.
Check google sat maps n zoom in anywhere.
All u see are skidder trails.
So big a mess everywhere u cant walk in it.
I used to be a guide, but no more.
No game....u dont need guides.
No fish either.
This is such a waiste of land.
Im moving to a state with deer.
 

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Weather, poor soil, poor habitat, the cutting of yarding areas, extended firearms seasons, and shoddy management all play a part. However the fact remains that area isn't conducive to high deer populations, add to increased pressure from a historical perspective....so basically it is what it is.
 

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Maine is a hard state to hunt. If you can consistently harvest white tail year after year here, you can hunt anywhere’s in the world. These are true free range bucks. This isn’t a heavy agricultural state. We are on the northern fringe of the white tail range. Maine has plenty of food to sustain plenty of deer. Southern and central Maine numbers are healthy. The north woods in Allagash region down to moose head is east toward milliocket is timber harvest country. So the herd management practices are weaker..with that said true Maine hunters can get the job done. And a northern Maine woods big bodied buck is very rewarding. More rewarding then sitting on a edge of a crop field on private land. The area I’m hunting in a few days hasn’t had a white tail harvested in several years. They’re arnt many deer around, but the ones that are haven’t been pressured..
 

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https://maine.gov/ifw/wildlife/species/plans/mammals/whitetaileddeer/feasibilitystatement.pdf

It would take me a day to rip this report apart so why bother?. Any intelligent individual with a bit of education can read this and see where the problems exist for the Maine whitetail.
The fox is controlling the hen house.

State wildlife officials are given their marching orders and the reports focus on deer as the problem rather than the policies of the state in regard to lumber.
I love how this report talks out both sides of it's mouth...so to speak.
The deer are ruining the tree's during the winter. Why is that?. Could it be because there are not enough tree's left?. OF COURSE NOT!.
No!... the deer need to be managed to save the few tree's that the lumber companies haven't gotten to yet. Winter yards?. well sorry... the deer are just gonna have to hang tough till the contracts are up for renewal. Maybe then they will catch a break. HA!...yeah right!.

Are any of you people back home gonna do anything other than let the massoles down south tell you what to do and then complain about it?. This is a 2000 report that basically mentioned the deer and told you how the state was going to continue to allow them to be slowly wiped out. Here it is 13 years later and guess what!?!... the plan worked!.
Now they are saying that they see it worked and they will think about the consequences of that past plan while they sit on their butts until there are no deer left. That's really what is going on here. The deer herd isn't even on the radar screen other than when they have to say something to let everyone know that they do remember that there are deer in Maine. Not going to do anything about it but they will admit it.

In another 13 years they can start talking about how much Maine is like it was in the 1930's where seeing a deer in central maine was like seeing an elf and how they are going to work to get it back to 1940's levels... if they can.... which they wont.
This is why I left and this is why I wont be back. :pukey:

O.K.... I think I am done now.
Hey LaPage!.... Suck it!
As a New Englander and have been hunting Maine for many years now... IMO only ... the Maine deer management system sucks. There is “technically” a larger deer herd in Maine than NH.... but the average hunter in NH can get 6 tags. There is from my understanding 10 doe to 1 buck. But you can only really take bucks in Maine unless you have expanded a very tag. Again, IMO, if you allow for more doe population control and allow for more bucks to grow, then there would be a larger deer herd. But to each their own and I am NOT a biologist. I hope Maine fixes the problem. It’s 2021. I’m hoping there will be a solution soon.
 

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Well I def. do not appreciate you sayin ALL mainers are like this. Yes we know the hunting sucks yes some of us know how ****ty our management is. Someday I hope to change that. I am only 21yrs old and have gone out of my way lately to learn more and more about management and what not. I love to hunt and I have to most respect for our land and the animals. I am a Passamaquoddy and have grown up on a reservation all my life. Our hunting here on our land is probably 10x better than most places in maine. Logging is very limited selective cutting only, no clear cuts, and based around our deer herd. We can shoot does in October and starting nov.1st it's bucks only. Not sure if this helps but would love to know more.
Surrounding land 'state land' really sucks hunting. They all say they come to the 'Indians land'. Which doesn't surprise because everything else is wiped out from the logging company's. we have lots of deer and some very nice trophies! Hunting was kinda ****ty in late 90's but has gotten better since. I feel we do very well in managing our land and it just keeps getting better every year. I think there are a few things we could do to help like limiting the number of does killed and a shorter rifle sseason.
I wish I had the knowledge you did about managing deer herds but I will someday mark my words. I would rlly like the rest of the state to be awesome hunting also and would like to make a difference in this someday. So yes I am calling your BULLCRAP on stereotyping all mainers. Would love to really learn more about what you would think would be a good game plan on how to help us. I do feel a lot of the same things you do about this place but I am one to want to change it and not run from it. No hard feelings but would rally appreciate some help.
I am joining the military and will be leaving in a few weeks to some good hunting grounds finally! Lol but will be coming back and this topic is number one on the to do list!
Hey did you ever get back to Maine? Curious about the management and hunting on your native lands. I never thought to look there for a different approach to what the rest of the state does to "manage" the herds especially in the northern zones.
 

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Maine is a hard state to hunt. If you can consistently harvest white tail year after year here, you can hunt anywhere’s in the world. These are true free range bucks. This isn’t a heavy agricultural state. We are on the northern fringe of the white tail range. Maine has plenty of food to sustain plenty of deer. Southern and central Maine numbers are healthy. The north woods in Allagash region down to moose head is east toward milliocket is timber harvest country. So the herd management practices are weaker..with that said true Maine hunters can get the job done. And a northern Maine woods big bodied buck is very rewarding. More rewarding then sitting on a edge of a crop field on private land. The area I’m hunting in a few days hasn’t had a white tail harvested in several years. They’re arnt many deer around, but the ones that are haven’t been pressured..
Thats a fact you have to work harder to find consistent success here then anywhere else ive ever hunted. Big bucks are hard to come by.
 
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