I bought both my sons the Diamond Atomic youth bow. Great little first "real" bow.

Lots of adjustment for them to grow. They'er now 8 and 6, and will be shooting these for years to come.

 

Any reason why you didn't go with a Genesis or Mini Genesis?

 

My daughters learned on the Genesis. If I remember correctly, it peaks at 20lbs. If he wants a bow that will grow with him for years then you need to look at Bear, Diamond and others that offer bows that will have a greater range in draw weight and length.

Andrew

 

Too heavy for the target audience. Diamond Atomic all the way.

 

IMO the Genesis is OK as it goes, but its primary design is to be a one-size-fits all, not necessarily the best bow for the specific archer. we have about 6 or 7 of them as come-and-try bows at my club, I'm forever putting the things back together after being derailed - I'm not a fan of the angles the cables meet the cam.

for a "real" bow, I think the Ruckus and the Mission Menace are both good candidates, although their main shortcoming is that the max draw weight varies widely with the draw length - that's the tradeoff for having such an adjustable bow.

 

I teach archery in my PE classes and we use the Genesis. It's a great bow for NASP competitions and for PE class, being that the draw length fits all (without tools). It would not be my choice for a youngster looking to eventually hunt. There are a lot of bows that can adjust weight and draw length as the youngster grows. The Genesis is just too light of a bow to think about any kind of hunting. Just my .02

 

Remember... The Genesis line does not have any letoff. It is so it constantly stacks all the way through the draw.

I'd look seriously at the Mission Craze and Riot. Both will serve him well IF they will fit him at his size. Unless he is really small it should not be a problem.

 

Diamond's Infinite Edge will go from 5# to 70# DW, and 13 to 30in DL and weighs 3.1lbs bare bow. Great choice to shoot for a LONG time.

 

As a coordinator for a youth program at our club I see some serious short comings with the Genisis bow. For anyone wishing to get into archery a bow must ift the shooter, be it youth or adult. That means it has to fit them for draw length and a weight they can handle. The problem with genesis bows is the "one bow fits all mentality". To shoot well over time a person has to develop repeatable form. The genesis bows have no draw stop for a youngster to stop at a specific spot for draw length. Thus they, not knowing where to stop, cannot develop consistent form and proper muscle memory that goes with it.

In just the last couple years bow companies have started making bows with a lot of adjustment, both draw length and draw weight, so that they can be set for a youngster and be readjusted as the child grows. Sure, they cost more, but are IMO a much better choice in the long run. One such bow not mentioned much (marketing) is the Darton Ranger X and at a cost of only about $60 more than a Genisis.

The main problem I see with bows such as the Infinite Edge is it has way too much adjustment. No child, who may need to start at about 15# draw weight is ever going to need to crank it up to #70 or reach a 30" draw till they are in need of a more advanced and better fitting bow.

Take it for what it's worth, but this is my opinion.

 

To shoot well over time a person has to develop repeatable form. The genesis bows have no draw stop for a youngster to stop at a specific spot for draw length. Thus they, not knowing where to stop, cannot develop consistent form and proper muscle memory that goes with it.

Now THAT makes perfect sense. I really appreciate y'all's input on this. Since he seems to have the chops for a consistent run at this, and since I intend to start as well, I think a bow that fits him, rather than a one-size-fits-all, will be the route to take.

I can see the value in a Genesis bow for a youth program where different kids will be using a bow for introduction type events. I think my son is past that point. So, we'll look into the various bows that are commonly recommended here.

Thanks for all the input! Now I have to find a newbie bow for myself...

 

I see the Genesis as having its place as a learning/teaching tool. The kids that are serious about archery quickly move into a recurve or a compound. How old is your son and how big is he? My daughter started when she was 6. She stared with the club's PSE Mini Razorbacks and had to earn her first bow by advancing from the beginner's to the intermediate class. When that happened she wanted to go compound over recurve. We got her a Diamond Atomic and it was a great bow for her to learn on. She's 8 now, shoots a Hoyt Ruckus and is doing incredibly well with it.

 

I bought my son a genesis mini because that is what his instructor recommended (instinctive finger shooting) and his draw length was actually under 13" (He is 6 and small). Not having a draw stop is causing a problem that he overdraws to try to get more power out of the bow. Still working on his form. I would have gone with the Diamond Infinite Edge if he was a bit bigger as my mother in law has one and loves it. Will probably get one in the next year or two. The mini will end up as a bowfishing rig.

The bear bows are toys and only good for getting kids interested.

 

One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post, a critical element for a bow for kids just starting out is the physical mass of the bow. When my daughter first stared out we looked at a Diamond Edge, but it was just too heavy for her to hold steady.

 

a friend's daughter (11, about 4'6" - very small child) has just "worn out" her first compound after about 6 weeks. I honestly have no idea what it is, but it maxes at 23lb at her DL, and she finds it way too light, both in draw and overall mass (and that's with a stab and full sight and scope).

he's just ordered a 35lb Ruckus for her.

 

My daughters hate them..... they use them for the NWTF Jakes days and the NRA you field days and are ok to introduce a kid to archery, but that's about it. My girls always ask if they can take their own bows because the genesis bows are always too weak, the arrows way over spined, the arrows and or bows have been known to be in fair to barely acceptable condition (I Know more on the PGC than the bow)....

 

:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up, Barry

 

My personal two cents ... Go with a take down recurve instead. As he grows daily, his draw length will too, and he'll still be able to perfectly hit his anchor points instead of worrying about whether or not he's at the right point on a cam. As he gets older, he can swap limbs for more strength and length. I got my daughter a Micro Midas and instantly regretted it .. not because there was anything wrong with the bow either.

 

Well, my son is so far showing a lot of interest, but very little real progress/improvement. The largest factor for the lack of improvement is the lack of instruction. However, when I see him draw smoothly, take steady aim, and release without a jerk or a lunge, and the arrow wobbles it's way through the air and then lands on target at a 60 degree angle from his position, I have to wonder if part of the issue is the equipment. Could be cheap arrows, but the bow is also part of the problem, I think. As well as inconsistent form.

My next clear step is some competent instruction at the range in Plano. Then we'll get him a good bow and remove quality and stability of the equipment from the equation if at all possible.

As a former athlete, I understand the importance of consistent performance and muscle memory. I'd rather support the development of form and boost confidence and enthusiasm at the same time using a compound bow. Then, when he is consistent and if his interest continues, we'll see about a recurve or longbow, which seems to require more physical and mental discipline and more upper body strength.

I suppose that might seem backward for some traditional shooters, but it seems to make sense to me...

 

The Genesis bow is a HEAVY, metal compound bow
that works like a recurve.

Wooden recurve bows are extremely lightweight (at most 1-2 lbs).
Metal Genesis risers weigh a lot.

1) biggest problem I see is that the nock is too tight for the bowstring center serving.
....when you have TOO tight nocks, and LOW draw weight bows....then, you get really STRANGE arrow flight.

2) second biggest problem, is that the arrows given to children are USUALLY ridiculously stiff.
....so, if the child is shooting the Genesis bow with FINGERS, and TIGHT nocks AND ridiculously stiff aluminum arrows,
....GUARANTEED you will get weird arrow flight.

 

My take on the genesis and recurves is that they all have their plusses and minuses. I taught at a Boy Scout summer camp last summer and this summer.

Genesis Pro's: One size fits most. IF the little kids (cubs/webelos/smaller boy scouts) can handle the mass of the bow they shoot pretty good. Goldtip arrows were the only arrow that would give a clean release like Nuts & Bolts said. The ability to adjust draw weight is superior to recurves. I could go from around 9 lbs. to 20 lbs. Draw length is better than recurves because they range from 0" to 30" on one bow. Speed is 20 fps faster apples to apples through my chrony vs a 20 lb/54" Great Tree Mohegan recurve. Finally I didn't have to string/unstring the genesis 6-8 times a day for storage.

Genesis Con's: The bows are heavy. They're at least 2 lbs heavier than the take down recurves. I had a hand full of boys who preferred the recurves because this fact. Arrow fit to the serving is limited if using the stock serving, GT's were the preferred arrow for them to shoot. Bemans would twist off the rest because of nock fit that was too tight. Finally the bow is designed to shoot three fingers under. That's fine for true beginners, but some kids would shoot split finger get finger pinch by doing this.

Note, I set up 15 recurves, and 5 Genesis bows with brass nock sets and No Gloves. No tabs, or gloves to lose, or not have lefty/righty issues.

Recurve Pro's: Very light, easy for any one to physically hold up at full draw. Fun to shoot. That's about it.

Recurve Con's: Limited ability to fit different shooters. the 20 lb/54" recurves(all recurves were take down models) would only fit a 26" draw shooter. I'm 5'7" and they were too short for me by an inch. They stacked too much, to fast is you were much longer than a 27" draw. The cubs couldn't shoot them well because (obviously) they were too big. We also had 16 lb/48" recurves which fit little guys under 4' but not much taller. Cost was bad in comparison too. The recurves averaged 85.00, with another 50.00 if you bought a spare set of limbs for replacements or heavier poundage. That was more than a Genesis, which didn't need extra limbs. The recurve limbs warped badly in the heat, and constantly needed to be unstrung for storage. Finally sticky rests would wear out or fall off.

As for draw length, that's simply a form problem that can be fixed with good instruction on any bow, stop or not. Every one of my kids at camp would draw to their ear like they were shooting Welsh war bows until I corrected them.

Find a bow he can hold on target like an Atomic or PSE Mini Burner, and let him grow into a bigger bow down the road.

 

Why don't you buy yourself a bow with no draw stops and No let-off? Anyone that is not willing to shoot a compound bow with no let-off and no draw stops should not expect their kid(s) to do it. Anybody with the true interest of the kid in mind will never recommend one of those outdated one size fits all bows. The newer kids bows are so much better, there is no comparison. I cringe when I see the salesmen in the Archery departments trying to sell parents those bows for their kids. There are TOO MANY great kids bows that are adjustable over a wide range of draw weight and draw length that have awesome let-off and a positive draw stop(s). And some are very lightweight as well. I've often said that if you want a fair perspective from your kid's side, Do the MATH and figure how much your bow would weigh if your bow weighed the same percentage of your weight as your kids bow.

Let's say you are shooting a 4lb bow and you weigh 200lbs. Your kid weighs 80lbs. To be handling the same weight as you, your kid would need a 1.6 lb bow. Yet, many of the bows sold as kids bows are 3lbs or more. Do the same math in reverse with your kid's 3lb bow, and that would put your BARE bow at 7.5lbs. Most people have trouble putting themselves in the shoes of the kids that have to shoot the bows they are given. And then wonder why their kids lost interest so quickly. And if you can't do the math, go to YouTube and search for a basic Math Ratio tutorial. Some bow companies are better at the math AND better at putting themselves in the shoes of the little kids. The Whisper Creek folks had the math down pat years ago when they came out with the Phantom. And Hoyt new it. That's why they bought out that line of bows and now markets them as the Fuse Freestyle. Bowtech/Diamond figured out the math early on as well, except when it came to the modules on the Rascals. This awesome little bow is pretty much non adjustable unless you have $30 to spend every time you want to change the draw length and then more money for new limbs when you want to go up beyond the 10 lbs adjustment limit. But They finally got it right when they came out with the Nuclear Ice and now the new atomic. Darton got it right early on with their Ranger line of youth bows. Light weight and large adjustment range with the best let-off I've ever felt of any youth bow. Who in their right mind would buy a Mathews Genisis for their kid(s) when they could buy a Darton Ranger X or Diamond Atomic for the same price????

It's all about having the right perspective. If you can't put yourself in your kid's shoes, then I can see why you can't understand why more folks don't recommend the Mathews Genesis.

 

It's all about having the right perspective. If you can't put yourself in your kid's shoes, then I can see why you can't understand why more folks don't recommend the Mathews Genesis.

Well, I guess it comes down to experience. I have none, as I pointed out in the thread. The Genesis was recommended to me by a friend who has a lot. That's why I asked the question in the first place.

You know, if you think about it, I could base my choice on a completely objective and arbitrary analysis of bow weight to body weight ratios. In which case I'd probably stick with the Bear Scout that he currently has. That's nice and light! Or, I could go with an experienced friend's recommendation. Hmm... See the dilemma?

I'm glad I asked the question here and that I got plenty of good advice. I'll find a good compound bow that is just under, or right at 3 lbs and has a good amount of let-off and a positive stop. Y'all have taught me a lot! Now I have at least some limited "experience" on which to base my choice. Mission Menace or the Diamond Infinite Edge are looking about right. And the Darton Ranger X looks great, too! Still, we'll need some more experience before making the final decision (pro-shop visit with my boy and an intro to archery course at the range next week).

Thanks y'all!

 

Genesis bows work fine however, they do not have a draw stop. Our club has a bunch of them and the only safe way to manage them is to use full / max length arrows. Paint the arrows White so they won't be confused with shorter arrows.

 

Get him a Diamond Infinite Edge, with a draw weight range from 5# to 70#, draw length range of 13" to 30", ON ONE BOW. It'll be a loooooong while before he outgrows that. It's also better built than the Mission Craze or the Hoyt Ruckus. Trust me. I work part time at 2 different archery shops and between them, I've set up and tuned just about every bow built in the last 6 years. The Diamond Infinite Edge beats those bows in shootability and adjustability.

The Genesis line of bows do not have any let-off, and no specific draw length settings, so the it'll draw back as far as you can pull. It's basically a big slingshot. Don't waste your money on those.

 

The Mission line of kids bows have a lot of adjustability. The problem is the same as the Genesis, they're heavy. The diamond, or the the PSE Chaos FC, or it's new replacement, are much lighter.

 

The thing about the highly adjustable bows like the Infinite Edge is that not all draw weight and draw length combinations are available, i.e., you're not going to get the 5 pound draw weight at the 30 inch draw length. My son shoots a Diamond Nuclear Ice, the predecessor to the Atomic. It's advertised as 10-29 pounds, 14-24 inches. You only get the lowest weight at the shortest draw length. At his draw length (18"), the lowest weight was 14 pounds. As I look back at the videos I took, he had to work a little at first to get it drawn, but he got stronger quickly, and he's moved from the low level string setting (22 pound max) to the higher level. As mentioned above, bow mass is really important. That's why he has a nuclear ice and not an Infinite Edge. For bow mass, the published data has the Atomic at 2.5 pounds, the Nuclear Ice is 2.9 and the Infinite Edge is 3.1 pounds. However, my son's Nuclear Ice, with a quiver and rest, but without a sight is still definitely lighter than my wife's Infinite Edge with sight and rest but no quiver--way more than 0.2 pounds.

If my son were 9, I'd be struggling with two choices: Buy an Infinite Edge now which would last him as long as necessary, but may be on the heavy side or buy an Atomic or Nuclear Ice now and then something else in a year or two. I'd suggest taking him to a shop and having him shoot an Atomic and an Infinite Edge/Craze/Ruckus/Ruckus Junior. See how he handles them. If it's too heavy, it won't be fun, and he won't stick with it. If you buy an Atomic for $200 now and he out grows it in a year, you can probably sell it for $150 without too much problem, so you'd only be out $50 which is pretty reasonable. Unless he handled the larger bows easily, I'd probably lean toward an Atomic or Nuclear Ice for a year or two, then sell that and move to an Infinite Edge type.

 

Here is my experience. My 8yr old has a Mission Menace, it fits him and grows with him, I have to adjust the draw length about every 3 months to keep up with his growth. This year I bought my 6yr old a Bear apprentice 2. He has a much smaller frame and the Menace was too much for him, the bear is a bit lighter and smaller. I was considering the PSE Mini-burner, but he liked the bear a bit better. I let him make the choice.

There are plenty of choices for great youth bows. As far as the genesis, it has its place as many have mentioned and if it fits your child's needs, then go with it. It isn't about you our what you want, it is what the kid wants to use and feels right for them. Let them make the choice, they are the ones shooting it. I think all too often we as experienced archers forget this important part of choosing a bow.

 

Tennis is bows are nice but a compound version of a recurve no real draw length. To get any good proper draw length a good firm wall ADR essential for an archer to reduce variables . IMHO .

 

The Genesis is a great instructional bow, shootable for almost all ages and sizes, and multiple people can use the same bow. The NASP has helped to popularize this bow and it has caught on with clubs and other groups for instruction. Learning good basics and mechanics on this bow will transfer to any other venue of shooting, plus establish the enjoyment of the sport. NASP and NAA (junior olympic style recurve) leagues are becoming very popular. Many shooters that want to progress higher levels of shooting and hunting transition to compound, (size specific with let-off bows). Our club uses the Genesis for the many youth shooters that don't have equipment.

Best of luck and good shootin'.