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Bean Burrito

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I've just started doing SPT exercises, about 20 minutes or so a day, I'll increase time as I go on.

Should I distribute time evenly between each exercise, or focus on the ones that give me the most problems?

For example I have no problems with the behind the head exercise, but have the hardest time on the endurance (hold and aim exercise). Should I focus more on the endurance exercise and spend less time on strength/structure/flexibility exercises? It's worth noting I can do them all fine and generally wont have any endurance issues (unless I've done a days hard manual labour before shooting), just I feel the endurance exercise is the hardest for me. Or just do them all evenly to avoid strain?

Thanks

Edit: I'm correct in doing these exercises with a weighted full setup aren't I? Or should I do it without stabs to begin with
 
#5 ·
Bean, the reason for the spt's are to build the skills. Do them as you need them. Don't strain, and don't break form in order to get the spt. If you can't handle the time, do what you can and try to increase over time....don't push it too hard. So many insist on being strong enough to hang with the best, but the best got there by taking form first, strength second.

And yes, the strength ones are done full rig. The flexibility ones (over head, etc) can be done without the full rig for space and convenienience reasons. Nothing like wheelding a 3 foot stabilizer to break stuff arround you.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Huntmaster said:
Bean, the reason for the spt's are to build the skills. Do them as you need them. Don't strain, and don't break form in order to get the spt. If you can't handle the time, do what you can and try to increase over time....don't push it too hard. So many insist on being strong enough to hang with the best, but the best got there by taking form first, strength second.

And yes, the strength ones are done full rig. The flexibility ones (over head, etc) can be done without the full rig for space and convenienience reasons. Nothing like wheelding a 3 foot stabilizer to break stuff arround you.
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I've got a little shooting range at home so space isn't an issue.

I think I'm doing pretty well with them, they are physically draining but I'm making sure I do them properly.
 
#7 ·
SPT's are important, but I would keep the order in which you do them. Over time the "weaker" ones will catch up. Make sure you are doing them correctly, never hurts to have a refresher from your coach or go online.
 
#8 ·
I would say do them all equally. They're all beneficial and complement each other. What you want to remember is that you don't want to over do one of the exercises and cause injury.

I wish Coach Lee would put up video of each exercise rather than just the two photos he has there. It would be nice to be able to see each of the exercises done correctly so that a student may more easily imitate the action.
 
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#10 ·
Agreed on the videos. I wish USArchery had it's own youtube channel, where we could watch videos on the NTS.
 
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#11 ·
limbwalker said:
Agreed on the videos. I wish USArchery had it's own youtube channel, where we could watch videos on the NTS.
Click to expand...
Yes, yes, and yes.

Lack of training tools and information for archers is one of the key deficiencies in the USA Archery program. I understand the emphasis on instructor and coach training, but all of that needs material to back it up. USA Archery needs to post exemplars (idealized models, not the personalized variations we see in top archers) of SPT and and NTS on-line. The training materials for USA Archery should not be the privately published book by coach lee (or little manuals that instructors are have to write up for their students because there is nothing from USA Archery to handout to students), but official USA Archery materials available to everyone free on-line, and for purchase as printed manuals. The L1/L2 manual is nicely done for what it is. I think there should be a student version of it. And since it is really hard to learn motion from still pictures, they need on-line video examples as a supplement. All it takes, for goodness sake, is a cell phone or consumer camera and a tripod.
 
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#12 ·
I've always seen the for-profit publication of books on what has essentially become the NTS, using OTC archers and staff coaches, as a conflict of interest. Just like any products or ideas I generate on the job become the property of the U.S. Gov't (yes, I had to sign a form that said this when I started my gov't career), the products and ideas that are generated on the job, using the OTC facilities and archers and volunteers, should be the property of USArchery.

I know some who will fundamentally disagree with me on this, and it's not a personal attack by any means. Just a philosophy to make sure we don't have conflicts of interest.

So, yes, surely all the development of the NTS should be available to the membership. We paid for it one way or the other...

John
 
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#13 ·
limbwalker said:
I've always seen the for-profit publication of books on what has essentially become the NTS, using OTC archers and staff coaches, as a conflict of interest. Just like any products or ideas I generate on the job become the property of the U.S. Gov't (yes, I had to sign a form that said this when I started my gov't career), the products and ideas that are generated on the job, using the OTC facilities and archers and volunteers, should be the property of USArchery.
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That was my first thought when Inside the Archer came out, that for many of us, our employer owns the rights to any work-related IP we come up with during our employment contract. Not so, it seems, for Lee, who splits profits on the self-published book 50/50 with his co-author. I wouldn't necessarily want to begrudge him that *if* USA Archery had any official training materials at the same level, but they don't. They don't have **any** training material on their site--for anyone, not archers, not coaches, not even a link to Coach Lee's KSL site. Nothing. It is an amazing omission. Makes sense if all you are is a marketing arm for the Olympics, but not so much if you are a grass roots organization promoting archery.

In the past, I asked the head of NADA if they would post the L1/L2 manual on line. He responded a tad indignantly (kind of his MO when posting on AT) that of course NADA would not post "coach training material" on line--even though it was authored by the NAA and not NADA (though apparently laid out and published by NADA). He seemed to think he was in the pamphlet selling business rather than the coach certification business. Now USA Archery *owns* NADA, so they could just post the manual as PDF, and they could modify it slightly and make a student version and post it on line. The L1/L2 manual is one of the best general overviews of archery. One can argue about the way it teaches NTS, with the version I learned on teaching summer camp counselors to teach their kids "transfer and hold", which, uhm, is way too advanced for L1 (I think that has been eliminated from the manual--but how would I know?? I can't just look up the current version on line... grrr....)
 
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#14 ·
I don't presume to know what the details are in the contracts of our staff at USArchery. They could have - and surely did - cover this. Presumably in a different way than it was covered by our employers, but I can see where it wouldn't be precedent-setting either. University professors write books all the time. I'm sure this was a similar arrangement, but at some point, there will be no farm left for USArchery to give away...

John
 
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#15 ·
limbwalker said:
I don't presume to know what the details are in the contracts of our staff at USArchery. They could have - and surely did - cover this. Presumably in a different way than it was covered by our employers, but I can see where it wouldn't be precedent-setting either. University professors write books all the time. I'm sure this was a similar arrangement, but at some point, there will be no farm left for USArchery to give away...

John
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Coach Lee is a smart and capable man, who came to the job with an existing system, book and a website. So I'd imagine that he was careful to make sure he could keep doing that. It would make sense. But for USA Archery to cede the USA Archery instructional material to Lee's private profit making is another thing entirely. The fundraising prospectus for the initial press run of the book noted that among the reasons investors could expect a return on their investment was that Coach Lee's influence would be used to get the book to be made required material for the RA program, or something to that effect. That, frankly, isn't that different from university professors all round the country who write texbooks and assign them as required reading for their students--so I don't necessarily see it as unethical of him to use his influence with USA Archery to sell more copies of his book. His privately published books are *always* the only current books on his system, after all. However, college professors are different than the US National Coach. A textbook for a college media studies class or what not isn't the same thing as the official textbook for a "National Training System". A "National Training System" owned by USA Archery should have its own national standards and training materials, not rely on re-purposing privately published, outside materials. If coach Lee had time to write a book on the KSL shot cycle for himself, should he have had time to write one for USA Archery? (Though I suspect most of the hard work done in writing the book was by his capable co-author.)

If the NTS is really USA Archery's system rather than the Coach Lee system, which will leave when he does, then USA Archery needs its own training materials, ones not owned by Coach Lee or his co-authors.
 
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#16 ·
limbwalker said:
Agreed on the videos. I wish USArchery had it's own youtube channel, where we could watch videos on the NTS.
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I'm going to Chula Vista in December, I'll mention it to Coach Lee.

TAO
 
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#17 ·
Please do. If his intent is to truly share his knowlege with all archers so they can get better, than this will not be a problem. If his intent is to sell more books and share the knowlege only with those who attend the seminars and camps, then I guess we'll know that too.

Personally, a series of well made videos would be 100 times more useful than his books.

John
 
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#19 ·
I think it just kinda depends on whether the "IP" is considered property of coach Lee, USArchery (which, in my opinion, it should be if he's employed by them) or if it's available for everyone. I've seen mixed signals in the past, leading me to believe it's all three, or none of these, depending on the day...

John
 
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#20 ·
limbwalker said:
I think it just kinda depends on whether the "IP" is considered property of coach Lee, USArchery (which, in my opinion, it should be if he's employed by them) or if it's available for everyone. I've seen mixed signals in the past, leading me to believe it's all three, or none of these, depending on the day...

John
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I really hope folks can make this happen. To me it is a no brainer. If the goal is to teach then the information needs to be as widely distributed as possible, and videos are a better method to demonstrate motion than a book. If the goal is to hoard information or profit from selling it directly to the public then not providing videos or any official USA training materials would be the way to go. :embara:



But, as you say, what do management see as the goal? I know for NADA they saw their business as selling pamphlets rather than educating as many people as possible. Coach Lee has a lot of free information on his website (which, curiously, USA Archery doesn't link to, **at all** and, AFIK, never has, which is really, really weird since they don't have any alternate source of info on Coach Lee's system) so it seems that he should be amenable to video demonstrations, and yet he doesn't have any on his own site. :dontknow:

Here is KSL International's mission statement:

Coaching without Borders

To provide access to and share high performance coaching information, techniques, technical articles, form photos, data and training systems with those coaches and archers around the world who wish to enhance their skills and knowledge, be it at Beginner, Elite or Olympic level. We will share this information through the use of the electronic and printed media, seminars and hands on coaching camps.
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Sounds like he ought to have videos on a YouTube channel already, if that is really his mission.
 
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