I am only level 2 judge, but I don't see anything wrong with it. Any shooter that wants to can wear glasses.

 

Shooting with glasses is hard enough. There shouldn't be a rule against string hitting them. As stupid as saying you can't let your string touch your nose.

 

Thoughts?

From rules point of view there is no breach. I had to go for mediums limbs vs longs because it is a pain in the arse to accommodate the string pressure on the lenses - especially when I use progressive lenses. I would really like to hear why you think it shouldn’t be allowed. Just because it gives another anchor point? Raise your hand for string touching nose then too. I am listening.

 

I would really like to hear why you think it shouldn’t be allowed. Just because it gives another anchor point?

First, I’d like it to be clear that I don’t shoot, or ever have shot competitive Barebow, and have no personal agenda. This is just for casual discussion. I just want to hear what people think.

I see this use of glasses as an additional device, not part of the anatomy like your nose, that can be used as an aiming aid. I can imagine someone carrying around several pairs of glasses with different size or shape frames, and changing them depending on the distance to be shot. Or, going to extremes, someone having a series of piercings on their face with inserted studs or something that they could use as anchor points for facewalking. Again, additional artificial devices, not part of the archer’s anatomy.

Back in the good old days when I did shoot competitively (Olympic division, ‘70s and ‘80s), Barebow was exactly that - a bare bow. Archers could not use adjustable rests, or add weights to their bows. They had to use a single anchor for a round (no face or string walking). Pretty challenging on a field round.

So I kind of am of the opinion that this discipline of the sport should have remained, for want of a better word, “pure”. But obviously that’s not what most archers want.

 

Many use legal items to create 3 and 4 point anchors. Tip of feather to specific spot on nose etc. not illegal but learning what works to keep you consistent.

 

As someone who wears glasses with a fairly strong script, the last thing I would want to do would be to put any pressure on the lens or frame because any movement will affect your vision and by extension ability to aim consistently. I normally shoot with contacts because of difficulties aiming when NOT looking through the center of the lens.

 

I was thinking the same thing while watching him. I’ve tried shooting with my glasses and any movement to the lens throws me off. I know plenty of archers who successfully shoot with them on, but it’s easier for me to just wear contacts. Barbieri was near us on the practice range, and his process never changed. I was impressed not just by his accuracy, but how long he could hold at full draw with hardly any movement.

 

@Stash, that's a simply inaccurate memory.

Adjustable rests have always been allowed in barebow in both World Archery and IFAA. The proposal to officially allow them passed in 1971, two years after the barebow class was introduced. Before that it was a gray area in both freestyle recurve and barebow.

Stringwalking was legal until 1976 (proposal to ban in FITA in 1975) and was always legal in IFAA. Facewalking was also banned with the same proposal. But this was reversed shortly thereafter (it seems possibly 1982 but I can't get a copy of the rulebook from that period; it was definitely legal again by 1988). This is fairly well documented in the minutes from FITA Congresses of this era.

Interestingly there was a lot of grousing in the NFAA about stringwalking in 1967. By the 1970s, stringwalkers were featured on the cover of Archery magazine. The "instinctive" class was actually renamed "barebow" to accommodate the various aiming methods (gap, facewalking, and stringwalking) which became popular at the time.

The US NFAA Trad class is basically a modern barebow (but also allows a 12" stabilizer) with no stringwalking. It was introduced in 1990, when barebow in the US still allowed compounds, clickers, and full stabilizer setups. It's not a particularly popular class. Technically NFAA barebow still allows all of that, but Barebow Recurve matches World Archery rules and is the much larger class.

World Archery also has a Traditional class for 3D archery. It's not particularly popular, although its participants are enthusiastic.

There's a bit of a creative philosophy in barebow: The rules provide constraints, the archer finds the best way to perform within those constraints. I like this. I don't really like shooting Olympic Recurve, but I also was never very good at gap shooting.

There's a past Lancaster champion who somewhat infamously was accused of using his hat as an anchor reference.

 

@Stash, that's a simply inaccurate memory.

Possibly. It has been a long time and there’s no documentation that I can find regarding the rules (FITA) at the time.

But back then I did shoot several international FITA field events including 2 World Championships (1980, 1984), and had several Barebow teammates. Also, many Canadian Championships shot under FITA rules. My recollection is no plungers, no string/facewalking, no bow weights. I have a couple of low quality pictures from one of the events of the BB champion (Rosenberg of Sweden) and his bow (Hoyt TD2) doesn’t appear to have a plunger or any extra weights. Don’t know the distance he was shooting at, but it’s 3 under anchor with the fingers touching the nock, so not a stringwalk on that particular distance.

I will concede that I may be mistaken about the plungers/adjustable rests. I’m of course willing to look at any evidence you may have indicating I’m wrong on that. 😄 It wouldn’t be the first time.

Anyways, that’s not the point of my question. I was asking about how people feel about some sort of device being used to assist the anchor. The “creative philosophy” is the opposite of what I think is the whole point of barebow. Making a “click” sound with a fingernail on the grip, loading the bow with weights, stuff like that - not, in my opinion, in the spirit of shooting a “bare bow”.

 

How is the feeling of popping a finger off a grip to trigger a shot any different than feeling an increase in back tension to trigger the shot?

It doesn’t really matter what any of us believe the sprit of the rules are. WA set forth a set of rules for the class. We follow the rules. If the rules allow weights, I’m using weights. Doesn’t mean you have to if you feel like that doesn’t fit your idea of what the spirit of the rules are. It allows stringwalking, I’m going to stringwalk to the exact distance I need. You don’t have to, you can gap to your hearts content.

I will say this, if someone wants to be competitive in WA barebow they better have riser weights and be stringwalking.

 

To some degree, most tackle and shooting rules are fallible and perhaps always in some state of flux as archery tournament history reflects.

In a similar vein, it was interesting to see braced longbow r/d limb flip in all competitor bows at WA Longbow events.

Way back at the FITA Longbow events, braced bows were rigorously checked for any flat spots near the limb ends as all braced bows must have a continuous arc - this was in keeping with the traditional aspect of ELBs and their ilk. That rule was beaten with the advent of the 21st Century "Edge" longbow that had r/d unbraced limbs that braced in a rule approved continuous arc. Those "ringer" bows out shot the straight longbows in every aspect and became podium makers.

I dunno the current FITA Longbow rules and could care less, but bravo to WA for making their Longbow events accessible to the majority of longbow archers in this New Millennium.

 

Barebow rules tend to comment on devices that can be used to aim. There is nothing about anchor. Note, anchor plates and finger spacers are allowed on tabs, both of which can make for more solid anchors.

Personally, I am not sure that is a good idea. If you break or lose your glasses at a tournament, you are going to be in trouble. Glasses also move, so it might not be the best strategy for consistency. It must be really hard to buy a new pair of glasses, if they are center to his anchor.

Note, Ben Rogers makes contact with his string to his eyebrow for a reference at anchor.

His 58# draw weight might be more of a factor in his shooing.

(I saw this live last night. It was an electrifying final.)

 

Interesting observation, Stash. The only current WA rule regarding his glasses would state that they cannot be marked in any way or have micro hole lenses. Therefore his technique would seem to be allowable. As a judge, I hear a lot of complaints about there being too many rules in WA, but in my experience they are usually only created as a response to a new technique or piece of equipment throwing off the level playing field for all.


11.4.9.2.

Prescription glasses, shooting spectacles and sunglasses may be used. None of these may be fitted with micro hole lenses, or similar devices, nor may they be marked in any way to assist in aiming.

 

The glasses thing either is, or should be, a non-issue as long as 11.4.9.2 is observed. There is no aiming advantage to wearing prescription glasses, and in some cases, as with my progressives, it can be a slight disadvantage.

 

But if the progressive is setup like micro lens where there is no visible line where that central aimpoint is at...

Just saying because my optician has offered to make custom glasses to change the position of the center for my glasses to accommodate my rifle shooting. This is to keep the same cheek weld position whether I am shooting with glasses or contacts.

 

My progressives are a blend of 3 lenses and there is no distinct separation of prescription. Besides tradbow/barebow, I shoot long range BPCR with iron peep sights and using progressives is just a matter of getting used to changing head angles to align holes that are 30" or so apart, with glasses a few inches from the rear hole, whilst keeping the target dot that's 200-800 yards away in the center of those holes. It is what it is, which is actually just another thing to consider during aiming as opposed to those who are blessed not having four eyes.

 

The only real advantage I can see from this could be the use of the nock/string on the glasses frame as some kind of psychotrigger (similar to how people use a grip sear).
In saying that, use of a grip sear isnt illegal last time I checked and I cant really see any other advantage of using it. If anything, the slight movement of the glasses would probably counteract any benefit you get from using them as a psychotrigger.

 

Humanity can conjure up more pseudo psycho problems than solve the simple ones.

 

@Stash

1971 bulletin following Congress. Movable pressure buttons and adjustable rests allowed (noted at the top of page XXVIII). This was seen as a clarification/interpretation rather than a rule change as far as I can tell.

Stringwalking and plungers in 1985.

 

Thanks for posting the video. Obviously my memory is failing…☹. Now I have to try to figure out why I thought stringwalking and plungers weren’t allowed. 🤔 Probably confused with some sort of Trad rules. Sucks getting old. Oh well.

Haven’t watched the whole video, but scrolled through and saw some people I used to be good friends with, some of whom have since passed away, and a few I knew from other tournaments.

 

Speaking of rules... use of string silencers?

 

I see no WA Barebow Rules mention of string silencers...

22.3.2.
A bowstring of any number of strands.
22.3.2.1.
Which may be of multi-coloured strands and serving and of the material chosen for the purpose. It may have a centre serving to accommodate the drawing fingers, one or two nocking points to which may be added serving(s) to fit the arrow nock as necessary, and to locate the nocking points. No lip or nose mark is permitted. The bowstring shall not in any way assist aiming through the use of a peephole, marking, or any other means.

 

However, WA Longbow Rules do address string silencers...

22.5.2.
A bow string of any number of strands.
22.5.2.1.
Which may be of multi-coloured strands and serving and of the material chosen for the purpose. It may have a centre serving to accommodate the drawing fingers, one or two nocking points to which may be added serving(s) to fit the arrow nock as necessary, and to locate the nocking point. At each end of the bowstring there is a loop which is placed in the string nocks of the bow when braced. The serving on the string shall not end within the athlete’s vision at full draw. The bowstring shall not in any way assist aiming through the use of a peephole, marking, or any other means.
22.5.2.2.
Also permitted are string silencers provided they are located no closer than 30cm from the nocking point.

 

The convention barebow rules is that if it doesn’t say you can have them, you can’t. So string silencers are not allowed

 

Gotta love the rules makers and their convoluted approach to conformity, or lack thereof. LOL!

 

“The bow must be bare except for” and “may have” language makes this pretty clear even for a non-judge. The problem really happens if you don’t read the equipment rules in full and instead just scan for the thing you’re interested in

 

That's the obvious. In contrast were (or are) FITA Longbow rules as I've described previously that didn't/wouldn't take into account "stealth" r/d bows.

 

I seem to recall discussions among judges a few years ago about string silencers and multi-pin sights (which are specifically not allowed). We decided not to object to these since they did not offer a competitive advantage (not used for aiming, multiple sights don't help, and only offer the chance to aim with the wrong one). This was for local events. I believe we advised them that they might nor pass for Indoor Nationals, etc.

 

Judges making up rules is unhelpful. That’s not in their purview.

 

Glasses are explicitly permitted. Their use is not specified.

 

Seems to me that WA already ruled on this in the German Shooting Sport and Archery Federations request for clarification.

"The committee has not allowed this type of duel lens system, lens and frame within lens and frame or other possible bowstring alignment or head position reference points. By offering consistent head position and or bowstring alignment, these devices provide an advantage/aid in aiming."

Whether it is an overly complex system or a very simple one, glasses are to be used for vision and not any sort of alignment of the string or arrow.

 

@BuzzMA : Thank you for finding that. I knew I read that before when in the old thread about shooting with glasses, but couldn't figure out how to search for it again.