I don't remember seeing much about a thicker string being more forgiving. I can't think of many reasons off the top of my head why that would be. Many people do equate a slower bow with a more forgiving reaction, so maybe that's the origin of that idea.

In general, I go with thicker strings for only two reasons. The first is higher draw weights, which don't actually require that thick of a string, but just reduce noise and make the bow react a bit nicer. I have never noticed a score difference from this.

The more important reason is finger pressure. I've met some people with poor finger circulation, and changing to a thicker string significantly alleviates pain on the finger. Other than that, I have never particularly noticed any massive quantifiable improvements from string thickness increasing.

 

I've never tried to go larger. I make them to fit the nocks. 20 strands of 8190f with .021 Halo center serving. I couldn't find the small groove pin nocks locally, so I padded 2 strands of 8190 under the center serving for nock fit.

I did try to make a lower strand count string, and it felt extremely "twitchy". If my release wasn't perfect,,,,the impacts were dramatically off. Maybe that's what they mean by a string being "forgiving". I only shot the low count string twice, and hated it immediately, took it off. I haven't done any scientific testing. Just didn't like it, so I wasn't going to waste time messing with it.

 

Thanks for your response! It's in the Archer's Reference Guide (a great resource that can be found online) in paragraph 2.1.5.5. Also can be found on page 42 of Modern Recurve Tuning by Richard Cockrell. I think George T's advice was pretty neutral on the subject, other than nock fit.

Makes sense in terms of pain alleviation.

Let me ask you this...did you notice any improvement, even if it wasn't massive?

 

Oooh, 74f100...that's what I'm looking for. I totally agree that nock fit is very important...but you did notice that a thin string was "twitchy." That's good to know.

 

It could have been something that just felt different, causing me to release different. I just didn't spend the time to sort through it. It was a week before state indoor championships, so I didn't have time to mess around. LOL

I was looking for that magic bullet to bump my score by 20 points, it didn't. I still experiment with various things. I may go back and give it another try. But I shoot barebow, and string walk. So the issues tend to get amplified by extreme crawls. My setup now, is over an inch crawl for a 2 inch gap at 20 yds.

Like most things in archery, what works for me, may not for you. If you have the equipment to make strings, give it a shot, you may like it. I buy different materials when I find them on sale, just to try. I went with 8190f only because I could get it for the same price as the D97. I didn't notice any difference between the 2. The color of the 8190 looks better......the dark cherry D97, is pink.

 

Dark -

A thicker (higher strand count) string will be more resistant to stretch and creep (two different things), but typically have more weight and larger diameter.
Question is when is enough enough?

The forgiveness or twitchiness may be more subjective and more a function of tune than the string itself.

Viper1 out.

 

Thank you Viper.

Yes...I figure too many strands is when there isn't a center serving material that will work to fit the throat of the nock. I'm using Angel's largest center serving (.026) and figure I can get away with a 22-24 count string before Angel's (.015...their smallest material) won't work.

If the extra material ends up making me turn the bolts on the bow a quarter turn, no big deal. As for stability...more of that is ALWAYS welcome. I'd love a vectran string, but those are pretty rough on the limbs.

So, if the consensus is that too few strands can make an unforgiving and loud string...then too many strands is when they don't make nock throats that wide.

Perfection must be somewhere inbetween.

Thank you!

 

One special limbs manufacturer claimed that their limbs can't withstand a thicker/heavier string, because the string is too "strong"...

 

The following is simply based on personal experience and rather subjective "feel."

Yes, however you get there, nock fit is going to be most important.

After that though, I find that a thicker string gives me a better release. Even though I prefer a slick faced tab with a "hard" surface, such as cordovan leather, a skinny string wants to sink into the tab, and even give a feeling that it is trying to hang up in the finger joints. A thick string doesn't give me that feeling. It is just easier for the string to "unload" out of my hand. This might even be a real effect.

So for me, in that sense, the thicker string is more forgiving.

I came to that conclusion when doing some testing on the speed gains to had from a skinny string. The adverse affect on my release was actually enough to generate a measurably larger group size with the skinny string. Enough so, that I decided that the 2 fps gain from the skinny string was just not worth it.

 

I guess an heavier string will reduce the archer's paradox effects,
because it will oscillate less laterally due to its own weight,
but that's theory only...

Personnally I make my string according to my draw weight (currently 40-41# = Astroflight 15 strands),
and I add 1 or 2 strands if arrows are too weak, or remove 1 if arrows are really too stiff.
A 16th strand arrives under the serving (Angel 0.018) to fit my Easton pin nock 2#.

Recently I had to switch from my 15 strands string to my full 16 strands string,
to finish my training session because my nock set was fraying, and I didn't see any difference.
Maybe you have to be a 340+ shooter to see benefits.

 

All string materials have some "give" and usually they're a little more cushioney when lightly loaded or shocked vs. heavily loaded. So in general, a thinner string on bow P when hammered with amount of force X at a given poundage Y is going to react more harshly (up to the point where the yank is enough to actually exceed the plasticity of the material and/or break it). The effect is usually only a louder bow, especially when shooting lighter arrows, as more energy is transferred into the limb tips at recovery. This is true of both compound and recurve bows.

So up to a point, more strands on a string will give a little bit more cushion on the shot and yield a significantly quieter bow.

I once shot a 10 strand 452X string on my old olympic rig that I had years ago just to see what would happen. Even with aluminum arrows and 2 layers on the center serving so the knocks would fit, it sounded like I was dry firing it. That string came off and a FastFlight 16 strand went back on at the end of the day and I never did that experiment again.

lee.

 

I really appreciate all your input on this. It took two failures, but I made my first string without assistance last night. Tom Barker gave me three separate lessons on how to make strings and I'm just not the sharpest tool when it comes to tying knots. But...got that down and made a multicolor string.

So, new formula is: 18 strands of Angel 777 and Angel Majesty serving of .021 fits a Beiter #2 very well. Not sure why the strings we made before worked with .026, but it's a process. This is done without burnishing the string prior to placing the center serving on.

I'm interested in trying to make a string with more strands because the burnishing process flattens the string significantly. I'll try making one with 22 strands and stretch it out under weight and see if anything changes.

Right now I'm shooting about 48lbs, so I don't mind a little bit of excess weight and Bender's observation about a thin string and serving cutting into the tab rings true.

Obviously, according to all of your observations, too little is a problem. I've never shot less than 40 lbs so I've never shot less than 16 strands of various materials...but I've always wondered why a few articles just made the blanket statement of: A thicker string is more forgiving but slower. A thinner string is faster but more critical.

Well...gee...I'd like a more forgiving bow and arrow delivery system. So...piano wire it is.

Appreciate the comments and observations and look forward to more. Thank you.

 

Burnishing is more of an art than a science, though a good generalization is that it’s done far too much and too harshly in most cases. The rule of thumb for me over the years is only enough to “seat” the strands in the bundle and absolutely no more. What I’ve converged on on my compound strings is one and only one pass down and back with a leather shoelace at 350 lbs on the stretcher at the beginning of the first stretch. That’s before any servings are put on except the end servings of course.

On a recurve string I do the same concept- one pas at max stretch and that’s it. I usually use between 100-200 lbs on recurve strings depending on strand count and material (Dacron even less, 50-75 lbs)....

Lee

 

Yes, I'm seeing that from a few videos...that it is more art than science. I was thinking about making a 24-strand string and then just burnish it to the max and see what I end up with. Maybe that isn't the best approach, but my options seem to be...

A) Make a string and leave the center serving unburnished. That would give me something like a 18 count string and .021 center serving. It shoots well, and the string is relatively quiet. I seem to be having issues with stretch and creep, but I don't think I used enough tension in the pre-stretch phase. I'm making strings for a 70" recurve and the material should be very stable. So, there seems to be a flaw in my process. I've read the musings of another gentleman who used this material and he seemed to have stretch and creep stories.

B) Make a 24-count string and burnish the heck out of it. I would assume that the extra strands would add to the stability and then I could find a center serving that fits afterward. It would be a heavier string, but that's not my main concern. I can handle an extra turn or two on my limb bolts.

I've seen it argued before that one could simply make a thin string and then beef up the center serving. Something tells me there's more to it than that...that the extra strands lend torque resistance and such. I don't know? That's why I'm musing.

I guess when I get an air-compressor and some more semi-pro tools I can be more exacting in my methods for stretching and such.

The science is fascinating. It felt really good to shoot something I built, flawed as it might be, and not kill myself today.

 

The science is fascinating. It felt really good to shoot something I built, flawed as it might be, and not kill myself today.

By the way, I was warned when I first started making my own strings, arrows and doing all my own work, maintenance, tuning, etc. that my scores were going to drop. Took a little while, but sure enough they did. A bunch . The problem being, for most folks it's go to the shop or friend and here's my new strings can you put them on? and they're out of there and back shooting in a couple hours. But for us poor slobs, we have to manufacture the strings first before we can think about putting them on the bow and prepping everything up, knocking points, tuning, etc. On a compound bow anyway, that can turn into an entire weekend 90% working on the equipment, and the other 10% too tired to go shoot . Not so bad with recurve because the equipment is so much simpler, including the strings (not that you don't still have to be meticulous about a recurve string also).

If you make a mistake on your string build, add another day to that..... And so on with prepping your arrows, another whole time sink in itself....

I too love the feeling of shooting my own stuff, but Caveat Emptor - it can cut into your actual shooting time for sure .

lee.

 

It'll all depend on the material you're using, how many strands, etc. but I'd go with option B) for your next one, but with one and only one burnishing pass with a strip of leather at full poundage on the jig (after you've added twists to set the length). Do NOT use bowstring or serving material, fishing line etc, all that material is way way too harsh. Leather shoelaces from the department store work great as burnishing tools. Also, if you're using a Dyneema/Spectra based bowstring material, for 24 strands you could stretch at 200lbs for sure and even up to 300 if you're using something with a newer grade of Dyneema in it (SK 90 or SK 99, like BCY Mercury).

I made a 24 strand string out of BCY Dynaflight 97 once and stretched, and applied the loop servings, at 300lbs on the stretcher. It handled it no problems. That's probably overkill for a recurve application, but I wouldn't be afraid of even 200lbs for the initial stretch and putting the servings on...

For Dacron (B55, etc) or Polyester materials you do NOT want to stretch, because they don't settle in like Dyneema or Dyneema/Vectran blends. They just keep on creeping forever. Just put it on the stretcher, set to 50 to 75lbs and put the serving on. Take it off and you're done.

lee.

 

Oh, please don't say that. lol.

No, this was a good thing for me because my coach passed away recently and it gave me the impetus to branch out into a part of this sport that I had tried to shy away from. I couldn't do my own center servings and if I wore them out I'd have to work on someone else's time schedule and generosity. That worked for about ten years, but with Tom's passing and the strings we made together wearing out, I just knew it was time to grow up and grow a pair and learn how to do it. Being able to decide your own nock fit, on the fly, has done wonders for my confidence and that's only after building one string. So, I'm hooked, and I just pray that it doesn't cut into my shooting time too much.

If you're old school like me, you probably float your arrows in the bathtub. Ah, the things we do for this sport!

Yes, I'll try plan B, as you suggested. The Angel 777 material is meant to be burnished a little differently than other string materials (Like 452X) and it can be melted into itself to form a pretty solid strand. Its pretty neat stuff.

 

Well recurve strings isn't a huge deal, but if you get into compound cables/strings by some unfortunate accident that's what'll kill your shooting career . Completely different animal for those and that's where you get into the high dollar jigs and so on. So if you just stay away from compound strings, you should be ok. I didn't and went whole hog making strings for my compounds and, well, all you'd have to do is just look at what happened to me. Let that be a lesson to you....

As for Angel 777 I haven't worked with that particular material so it may have different best practices as far as burnishing. I know regular material will shred easily if you manhandle it with bowstring or pieces of serving, etc. I will say that Angel Majesty is the best serving available for any application, though, and it's now all I use for everything except end servings. It absolutely will not flatten or separate and is super durable...

lee.

 

Thank you to everyone who participated! Lee, I made #2 with 24 strands...so we'll see how it functions, soon. Very fun stuff...and I'll stay away from the compound string-making for a while. I have a couple and have the curiosity...but I'll focus on this: