Good to know, the clips I've seen on youtube looked somewhat the opposite, very manufactured (i.e. gets it on the first try, or shows it like that).

 

When he performs the Robin Hood shot...you could tell it took him quite a few shots...AND...when he finally does do it...he Double Clutches.

A Double Clutch to me is when an archer is at anchor and slightly collapses but regains control and gets back to full anchor and than shoots. It's like a part of the brain says 'shoot now' while the archer looses back tension but the archer recognises something isn't quite right and tries to regain control of the shot. I do that more often than I would like to admit myself. I personally don't want to ever do it....but about 80% of the time I can regain control and make a good shot when many people just let down all the way and start over. The reason why I try not to let down all the way is because I don't personally think it's a good idea when you're hunting and already drawn on an animal...unless you have to.

Ray :shade:

 

Bryron has said himself he is not a great 3D shooter and I watched a video of him shoot 3D in Germany with Henry Bodnik, all his shots were good but not as good as some top 3D shooters Ive seen, he has spent a lot of time on Trick shooting and he does that very well, he is a great personality and promoter of the sport which is more important than anything else.

I saw a clip of him shooting an arrow out of the air, a small boy shot it up in the air (sideways) and Byron took it down, I think the coolest and best shot Ive seen him do.

 

I saw a clip of him shooting an arrow out of the air, a small boy shot it up in the air (sideways) and Byron took it down, I think the coolest and best shot Ive seen him do.

I thought that was one of the coolest shots I've seen also :wink:

Ray :shade:

 

I always like byron's videos for the very reasons you do, Ray- he's a little above average on targets, but he's passionate and has a great personality.

As for the collpase and regain, I always called that "stuttering" because double clutching is shifting at the perfet time, where the rpm matches the next gear. If anything collpaising and having to reagain would be like missing a gear

 

As for the collpase and regain, I always called that "stuttering" because double clutching is shifting at the perfet time, where the rpm matches the next gear. If anything collpaising and having to reagain would be like missing a gear

I didn't know Double Clutching had a real world application. I'm in no way close to being a gear head so it doesn't surprize me I didn't know. I don't remember where I first heard it used to describe it in regards to archery but I know I personally didn't make it up.

Wouldn't coming to anchor and than collapsing and than regaining anchor again be more like a gear slipping rather than missing? I really have no idea :wink:

Ray :shade:

 

I'm thinking it's more of a "missed shift". Yeah I do that once in a while. I don't let down, just kind of write the shot off, but often it turns out to be as good a shot as any other. It's kind of a strange feeling, like your mind and body is completely controlling it's self.

I believe in Furguson, and his shooting method has really worked for me, especially as far as removing any kind of range estimation or guessing from shooting the bow.

 

Met Byron a few years ago...A great shot and a great guy !!

 

Okay..i might get hammered about this but i'm just gonna toss this out there for you fellers to mentally munch on for thanksgiving. LOL!

Dig this...the discussion ya'll are having right now regarding Byrons less than superhuman abilities with regards to stationary targets is very real...i too saw the bit where he shoots some 3D's with Henry Bodnik of Bearpaw Archery and i believe ya'll are right...with regards to Byron shooting stationary targets and i bet he and Hollywood Howard run neck and neck leaving "takes" on the cutting room floor but...(and this is a BIG "but")..but i like big buts (sorry...couldn't resist :laugh

It especially intrigues me when Ray says that after many missed tries that it was when Byron "Double Clutched It" and nailed the robinhood shot...cause i've also seen that Byron seems almost more proficient on moving targets than on stationary targets...and why?...cause there is no hesitation in his shot sequence when he's shooting targets on-the-move..almost as though he's (gasp)..

"Snap-Shooting" them.

some of ya'll are old enough to remember the movie "Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid" right?..well...remember the part where..

"When Sundance asks, when his skills as a gunman are tested. "Can I move?" (after having to shoot a coin laying about 50 feet away and failing dismally) then giving the go ahead. blasts that coin all over Bolivia?

and in the theater?..the crowd goes wild at that scene...why?..simple..cause so many can relate.

when it comes to stickbows i've snap-shot'em all my life...with my father and his bow buds always preaching and instructing when i was but a lad..."One fluid motion"...and here i am...been to Rod Jenkins clinic..training like a madman and "STILL"...a year later...struggling my butt off to develope a shot sequence...with an aiming system..that works better for me than snap-shooting and guess what?

if the buck of a lifetime ever steps out within 20yds?..does anyone think i'm going to..

Check my stance.
Check my grip.
Check how i'm addressing the string with my stringhand.
Take a deep breath.
Let it out. (as i guess how far away he is)
Breath in on the draw.
Solidly anchor while i exhale to relax while keeping BT taunt.
Assume a suitable sight picture and?..
Expand to conclusion.

or?..

just freaking shoot'im! :laugh:

and stance?...puuullleeease...heck...i might be twisted like a pretzel with my elbows might be down around my knees ducking under a branch to get shot aquisition. :laugh:

oh well...just a thought..but i know "if i think" about throwing a frisbee?..i just missed. :laugh:

So...in closing?..I propose...that when Bryon "Double Clutched It" on that robinhood shot?..he thought it about it too long...collapsed slightly...then did what he does best and snapped it off and pulled it off! :laugh:

and i think what i'm/we're discussing here?..is the difference in styles between a bowhunter and a target archer.

now...i gotta go finish putting my Bob Lee back together so..all i got and?

Happy Giving Thanks Folks! L8R, Bill. :cool2:

 

My goal with the "sequence" is to commit it to muscle memory so I don't have to think about it.

In practice sessions my sequence has been reduced to 1, anchor and transfer (transfer just refers to making sure my shoulders are down and the right muscle is holding the weight of the bow. 2, aim and expand. Those are the steps that I call out because those are the steps that I need to work on the most.

I often hit the target without doing that. It's the misses that bothered me and I'm after constancy. I find that if my form is reasonable (I've done the whole sequence) I only miss by the amount of any aiming error which is still likely a kill. If I make serious errors in form, the arrow could go anyplace. I might have had it aimed perfectly at the target but it wasn't pointing that way when it actually left the bow. I think pointing the arrow is the easy part and I don't currently give it much thought.

I don't want to get to long here but recently I was having some real accuracy problems shooting from the tree (I started a couple of threads about it) especially on close steep angle shots. The advice on the forum was practice and bend at the waist. I was doing that but my groups were junk.

The problem seems to have been that when I bent at the waist everything else went to hell..hunching shoulders, drawing with my arm and a nd the resultant sloppy, noisy release. I made things a lot better by simply going back to the basics of correct form from the waist up.

Now I'm shooting groups from the tree that more closely resemble the groups I shoot from the ground. The next time a deer shows up under my stand I will pay extra close attention to my sequence and maybe I won't miss that one like I did the last one. LOL

It's been a misserable deer season. I've had one chance to draw on a deer and missed. Now it's getting cold, the rut is about over and it's gun season. It's all about the shooting.

So here's MGF's summary on how to be a "successful" bow hunter. I heard this on a tape many years ago but it's the best advice I've ever heard. Be in the woods. Be ready to shoot. Be able to hit what you shoot at. Any fool will eventually get close to a deer if he spends enough time in the woods. All you have to do is shoot it.

 

When Byron does his candle/ring shot or any longer distance shots he always pauses at anchor, he is just adapting to the shot conditions as required.

 

When I shoot Aerial targets the from is pretty much the same as stationary targets, I still pause at anchor, the only real difference is Im tracking the target all the way through the shot.

 

I'd say there was a slightly added level of difficulty with those targets. They didn't seem very predictable. It looked like they would float one way or the other to one side depending on how they were positioned in your hand when you threw them.

Good shooting!

Ray :shade:

 

Since I've made more of a habit of pausing at anchor and getting a fraction of a second to settle, I don't shoot as fast, though in a given period of time, I land more arrows on the target

 

It was a little windy that day and unpredictable when they caught a gust of wind, with practice theyre really not that hard to hit consistently, once I figured I had time to make anchor, a slight pause my accuracy went up, it feels very relaxed and not rushed at all now.

Shooting aerial targets and the other end of the scale of holding on target/aiming drills helps me understand a lot about my form and feel it all helps to make me a better tourney shooter, plus its FUN :wink:

 

It was a little windy that day and unpredictable when they caught a gust of wind

Ahhh...the wind...that makes sense.

Ray :shade:

 

I need to make some flu flu arrows so I can throw my own! Then I can make a "I want to be just like Steve" T-Shirt. I should make a collection of I want to be just like ____ T-Shirts

 

I would never try to share all the advice and experiences I have had through the years, it would be counterproductive to do so. What I think is important to share with these boards are all the things that I have learned that have helped me become a better archer. Why in the world would someone share all the negative advice or experiences that have happened along the way. I feel that it is best to be concise and try to share and explain your positive archery experiences in the most straightforward manner possible. Apparently some people see this as trying to shove something down someones throat. I see it as an avenue for new archers to cut years off the learning process by not having to do the experimenting and mistake making that I had to do along the way. What is the most accurate information out there? Is it the guy that says This is the way I do it but has never been able to do anything in the field of competition? Is it the guy who has won multiple national and world champion ships and is willing to share his or her knowledge with everyone? Is it the coach who has had lots of classroom training and knows all the "accepted" ways of doing things? Is it the guy that has excelled in local competition and thinks he is an expert. These are all questions that you, as archers need to give consideration to before you consider the advice given. When you buy a product that involves "some assembly", I would think It behooves the purchaser to follow the instructions of the manufacturer, as they probably have a pretty good idea as to the best and fastest method of getting it together. I would think that consistent archery champions probably have some clue as to what works best and perhaps following some of that instruction might be a good solution to getting your archery shooting "together". Of course, this is just the opinion of an old man.

 

I would never try to share all the advice and experiences I have had through the years, it would be counterproductive to do so.

For who and why?

What I think is important to share with these boards are all the things that I have learned that have helped me become a better archer.

That's definitely important! :thumbs_up

Why in the world would someone share all the negative advice or experiences that have happened along the way.

Because they may not want an archer to have to go through those same experiences.

Apparently some people see this as trying to shove something down someones throat.

If anyone claims or tries to imply that their way is the only way...yeah...IMO...that is trying to shove an opinion down someone's throat.

What is the most accurate information out there?

The information given by anyone that is unbiased, honest and based on evidence without holding anything back, is the most accurate, IMO.

Of course, this is just the opinion of an old man.

Maybe so...but it's the opinion of an old man who has kicked some booty out on the archery range :wink:

Ray :shade: