It’s hard for me to have much of opinion without going and hearing it for myself, but my initial reaction is, this could just be one rogue a-hole. Unfortunately, there are shady people in all walks of life, maybe this is just one shady scorer. Or there could be more to the story.

 

Not clicking on the link to give some one money who proves they are a dirt bag.

not sure why you need to watch videos on how to measure a set of antlers, pretty straight forward

 

Very informative posting here. You’re full of help.

What’s a guy supposed to do that possibly doesn’t know how to score a deer? Just wing it and make up some measurement? No. You find information on how to do it the right way.

 

I know several P&Y and B&C scorers, always try to get a couple rough estimates before the final score! Especially for an animal that has a probable high ranking.

 

I have had 13 entered by wisconsin py scorers. But I know what they will score when I walk in. If this happened to me, I would have another guy officially score it and contact p and y.

 

Was trying to learn more about scoring deer heads, and had been listing to podcasts about it. Came across this podcast by www.workingclassbowhunter.com/podcast
Episode 471 titled Measuring deer with Bucky Ihlenfeldt. Start off as great podcast really informative about scoring and Pope and Young. Apparently Bucky is an official scorer for them and has measured their world record animals. All was going great until at about the 45 min mark he tells a story about how he shorted a guy 30” on a non typical deer because he didn’t think he would enter it in the books. He made some comments about how he scored a different deer for him before ,and he didn’t record it. A Few things bother me here 1 what gives anyone the right to short a measurement on a deer just because you don’t like someone. He stated that if he would of gave him the correct
Measurement it would be probably #2 in Wisconsin non typical. 2 what does this say about Pope and Young and the people and policies they have in place. If this guy shorted someone 30” what does it really take to give a buddy 4-8” to make it better than it really is and make a book or be a top ten animal. 3 Isn’t it the right of the owner of the animal to decided what they are going to do with it and get a fair score. Your thoughts

The guy doing the scoring volunteers his time, so if someone wants a deer scored and has no intention of entering it into the book then it is a waste of time for the scorer. Apparently the guy had him score another buck, so he took all the time and effort and then didn't enter it, so there was history with the hunter. Secondly, the hunter said he might sell it, so here the scorer does all the work and then the guy sells it without entering it into the books and he stated that the BC scorers aren't supposed to score them if they are to be sold. This wasn't just some random guy who he was scoring it for and he shorted him. If you aren't going to enter it or you are going to sell it don't waste a volunteers' time, man up, be honest and pay to have it scored. The hunter in this instance is a weasel.

 

In that case, the proper thing to do is refuse to score it instead of lying.

Reminds me of my best friend justifying his wife cheating on her high school boyfriend because he was gay.......proper thing is to break up.

 

Sign of the times. You don’t have to tell the truth anymore, in fact your encouraged to lie ( many benefits to be made, just look at our government) cheat, steal same thing it’s become the “normal “.

 

It’s a pod cast meant to stir the pot and make money. Highly doubtful this story has any truth to it.

 

I am in no way affiliated with the pod cast. The only reason I posted the pod cast is proof of what I was posting. It is up to everyone here if they want to listen to it. I just wanted to provide an example and question the legitimacy of Pope and Young, if an official scorer would be talking openly about shorting a score. This isn’t a new pod cast it is from September of last year.

 

I'd forward it to Pope and Young.

 

What could possibly go wrong with humans having a contest for killing animals and ranking them numerically? I can't think of anything...

 

I don’t get it. Why are people getting their panties in a wad over an inch of antler or skull, or whether a point is typical or non typical. Go hunt, enjoy nature, make a good shot, kill an animal you are happy with.

 

P&Y and B&C is mostly about boasting. I give credit where credit is due on large deer, but the system is flawed and just a platform to show off, of course people will discredit and fudge numbers. It’s the world of the “look what I did” or mine is bigger than yours. I have got sucked into the number game myself, but have stopped putting an emphasis on it like I used to. Just a shame anymore.

 

True....and if I had a bunch of monster bucks under my belt, I wouldn't care...but a life goal for me is a P and Y off public land. I'd like to register at least one in my life taken on public land in WV.

 

I had 1 Buck scored by CBM and it did no meet the mininmum 125 it was 119 that was the last Buck I had Scored. Being it was / is the only 10 Point I have see or shot I thought it wpuld be close but because it had a 3 odd tine from it skull it was a deduction? The was my last one scored few will have a deer or even animal that would make any Book sure some do but for the Majority og Hunters it is not common place. So Does not matter anymore What any Book / Records there is plus getting one Scored is some added Hoop Jumping to meet a Scorer and then the wait time from a Green Score to when they will Accept 1! Too Much Trouble and most that do have a World Record will Sell It as some have done! Record Books are for those that it matters to and not many Care These days after 40 Plus Years of Hunting. No Longer Matters to those I hunt with or myself! Just Saying!!
LFM

 

I find it hard to believe that someone would not notice thirty inches missing.

 

I have buddy's who are offficial P&Y , BC scorers..I have heard so many stories of , it scores higher , they do not know how to measure etc...
I was picking up my deer from one of them who is a taxidermist, another guy(rifle guy who seemed to have an attitude) was picking up his deer. . Out in the driveway the guy asked what I thought his would score. It was pretty much like mine but more mass. I said, 190-192, he said they had scored it at 192, he had the sheet in his hand. He said him and his buddy scored it over 200...like I said he had an attitude, chest thumper kind of guy...he was not happey

My buddy had scored mine, even though i did not ask him to and I was with in an inch overall.

 

That is not what this post is about. An official P & Y scorer admitted on a pod cast he’s took 30” off a deer because the guy wasn’t going to put it in the book.

 

Are there any controlling organizations that aren’t corrupt? What are people going to do, take their deer somewhere else to enter?

(Besides the US government of course)

I think if this stuff bothers you too much, you are probably hunting for the wrong reasons anyway. If you want attention just go light your pickup on fire and try to put it out with a leaf blower or something… or make a video titled “my first day of girlhood”

 

The guy needs to quit volunteering then, start charging a fee. Score really doesn't matter to me anymore, but my taxidermist scores them for me. Ive scored some for guys also. Not official by anymeans. I have seen some deer on this site that are scored way to high, compared to the pics they posted. But thats ok.

 

My reaction from your description is screw that guy. If you've got a monster boys get it measured by several official scorers.
My 2 cents

 

Imagine getting worked up by the amount of antlers an animal has and then using that number to judge your against others.

I’m with that guys wife, just lie.

 

no you cant trust anyone anymore. period! the older i get the more it seems integrity and morals have been weeded out of the gene pool. sad

 

Until P&Y disallows deer where bait is used I could care less. Thought they were all about fair chase.

 

Nothing wrong with a trophy. I’ve got a wall full of “mediocre” Iowa bucks that won’t be in any record book. I wasn’t specifically hunting for a buck. They just presented themselves so I took them. I miss how more people used to be into the spiritual side of hunting and not so much about the rack.

Some of my best memories made hunting were the ones I never made.

 

Was trying to learn more about scoring deer heads, and had been listing to podcasts about it. Came across this podcast by www.workingclassbowhunter.com/podcast
Episode 471 titled Measuring deer with Bucky Ihlenfeldt. Start off as great podcast really informative about scoring and Pope and Young. Apparently Bucky is an official scorer for them and has measured their world record animals. All was going great until at about the 45 min mark he tells a story about how he shorted a guy 30” on a non typical deer because he didn’t think he would enter it in the books. He made some comments about how he scored a different deer for him before ,and he didn’t record it. A Few things bother me here 1 what gives anyone the right to short a measurement on a deer just because you don’t like someone. He stated that if he would of gave him the correct
Measurement it would be probably #2 in Wisconsin non typical. 2 what does this say about Pope and Young and the people and policies they have in place. If this guy shorted someone 30” what does it really take to give a buddy 4-8” to make it better than it really is and make a book or be a top ten animal. 3 Isn’t it the right of the owner of the animal to decided what they are going to do with it and get a fair score. Your thoughts
[/Q

I have buddy's who are offficial P&Y , BC scorers..I have heard so many stories of , it scores higher , they do not know how to measure etc...
I was picking up my deer from one of them who is a taxidermist, another guy(rifle guy who seemed to have an attitude) was picking up his deer. . Out in the driveway the guy asked what I thought his would score. It was pretty much like mine but more mass. I said, 190-192, he said they had scored it at 192, he had the sheet in his hand. He said him and his buddy scored it over 200...like I said he had an attitude, chest thumper kind of guy...he was not happey

My buddy had scored mine, even though i did not ask him to and I was with in an inch overall.

My taxidermist is a scorer for both P&Y and B&C and every time my brother and I kill a book buck always asks if we would want put it in the books but we always say no I always say Iam not paying $35 or whatever it is to put my name in a record book it's just not our thing

 

The facts are this; The guy had me measure a previous trophy telling me he would enter it into records. When I was done he quickly had a change of heart after the time I invested into it. I get it, that sometimes happens but later found out he was going to try and sell the trophy. Fast forward to the recent deer and when I saw it I knew it would rank high. I called him, had a conversation that it would take some time but I didn't want to do it if he wasn't interested in entering into records. He agreed, either was no matter what the score he would enter it.
When I finished the deer 2 1/2 hours later I called him to tell him the good news. I said we could meet and take care of the paperwork where I would let him know what the final score was. He then got cold feet and didn't want to do paperwork but wanted the score info. What would you do in this situation?
He got pushy on the phone even to where I gave him a ballpark score (like a range) and he wanted numbers. I found out a few days later he had it in his store and was trying to sell it.
In the end he was using my services for monetary benefits for himself and wouldn't sign the fair chase affidavit. That is not int he guidelines and procedures for the clubs I represent.
All this was done at a local high school (now 3 area high schools) where I volunteered my time (on vacation) to come and teach a class about scoring, conservation, helped start a NASP, and try to get interest in the sport of archery.

 

The facts are this; The guy had me measure a previous trophy telling me he would enter it into records. When I was done he quickly had a change of heart after the time I invested into it. I get it, that sometimes happens but later found out he was going to try and sell the trophy. Fast forward to the recent deer and when I saw it I knew it would rank high. I called him, had a conversation that it would take some time but I didn't want to do it if he wasn't interested in entering into records. He agreed, either was no matter what the score he would enter it.
When I finished the deer 2 1/2 hours later I called him to tell him the good news. I said we could meet and take care of the paperwork where I would let him know what the final score was. He then got cold feet and didn't want to do paperwork but wanted the score info. What would you do in this situation?
He got pushy on the phone even to where I gave him a ballpark score (like a range) and he wanted numbers. I found out a few days later he had it in his store and was trying to sell it.
In the end he was using my services for monetary benefits for himself and wouldn't sign the fair chase affidavit. That is not int he guidelines and procedures for the clubs I represent.
All this was done at a local high school (now 3 area high schools) where I volunteered my time (on vacation) to come and teach a class about scoring, conservation, helped start a NASP, and try to get interest in the sport of archery.

Lying would probably not be my first natural instinct

 

That answers the OP. You can trust them as long as you pay them


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That answers the OP. You can trust them as long as you pay them


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No, I took an oath so the payment isn't a matter of trust? I/we make zero money doing what we do so the money is the entry fee, as is money inevitably goes towards what we love-hunting. Those funds help conservation, this securing conservation = keeping a foothold in hunting in our/kids future.
It really doesn't matter to me what it score in the end, its dead. I cant make it smaller or bigger, it is, what it is.
Please don't sour what we should all be pulling the rope in the same direction on. We are in this whole thing together.

 

This whole antler and horn scoring is a big joke money grab. Antler size and horn size doesn't mean nor prove anything. It doesn't mean the animal is smarter, dumber, sneakier, shyer nor more elusive. After you've bow hunted big game animals all over N. America you figure this all out. The suits in the corner office decided to make antler and horn size important to separate more fools from their money. To get your so-called record book animal in their so-called record book (P&Y,Boone&Crocket,SCI) the first thing you have to do is write them a check. Notice all the hunting ads; "to shoot that record rack you need to buy this mineral supplement, this camo, this seed, this broadhead, this scent, this ozone unit" and the list goes on and on. It's all about the money. If there were so called smart deer, they would never travel in daylight for any reason. Let's all be honest, if you can get close enough to a wild animal to kill it with a bow then it can't be all that bright. None of these big three scoring books can agree on how to score antlers and horns and none of them even score the entire antlers nor horns nor do they score the weight which probably would indicate the maximum size more than anything else would. Back in the day, hunters scored deer by their weight as it was believed the smarter deer would be finding more and better food and therefor would weigh the most. Saying the smartest deer are the biggest bodied deer is not any more ridiculous than saying the smartest deer are the ones with the biggest antlers.

 

I applaud iambucky26 for giving his point of view on what happened. However there is still some very disturbing things that have not been addressed, and have now come to light. 1 in your own words on the podcast you asked to score the buck. The kid didn’t ask you. So why did you ask? Was is because you saw how big it was? New it was going to make the book and wanted your name and notoriety as the scorer being a top tier buck in Wisconsin? Or were you just curious on how big it actually scored. We can’t answer that question only you. 2. When you found out who shot the buck why didn’t you just stop scoring process then and there? You wouldn’t have been put in this predicament. Does this go back to point 1 that you wanted your name as scorer in the book not someone else’s? 3. The arrogance you openly showed on a podcast that you shorted this guy 30” because he wouldn’t put it in the book. You even laughed with the hosts about it and said he deserved it. This shed a very poor light on P & Y or any other organization you’re affiliated with. 4. You state that this was at a high school where you were giving kids a presentation. What does it show the youth of hunting. That the only way a buck can get scored is if would make the book and you have to pay to find out? Does it also show them that you should only be worried about trophy bucks not deer management. This whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. I started this process to learn more about scoring. Unfortunately all I really learned is if you need something scored make sure you have a good idea before hand. Also the only way your going to get a true score is if you pay for it. Very disappointing. You stated you took some kind of oath. Does that really mean anything to anyone out there because there are plenty of examples of how the “oath” was not up held.

 

1-Yep, Asked me.
2-I thought maybe the hunter had a change of heart on this one. I was wrong as he was trying to use the scoring process for his own financial benefit.
3-A campfire type atmosphere conversation can be taken any way you perceive it. I like to joke around, it used to be fun?
4-I scored it after class was done as I started it after I talked to them about the scoring process and conservation. I've scored hundreds of heads, big and small, even a spike for a 3 year old girl a couple weeks back. I suspected the guy was trying to get financial benefit for the services I can provide for organizations that promote conservation. This was a rare case but any answer I provide obviously wont convince you as you want to bash me. If you would like to come over I will gladly explain how the scoring process works so you can learn too. The history behind it is fascinating. Or call me some time?