[nick060200]

Bump

 

[midwayarcherywi]

People generally don't shoot target arrows in sub 0 weather. Since you're talking about one shot at an animal, I don't think there should be any issues.

 

[w8lon]

I do daily, t-shirt weather here when it hits 20. We have not had a 32 degree day since November, and very few double digit days that weren't sub zero.

No problem losing points with ferrule tite or the blue carbon glue, just have to get it hot enough is all.

 

[DK Lieu]

i got the hot melt and like it a lot but the only thing that worries me is in below freezing temps,
as an experiment the excess that came off my arrows after gluing the inserts i took and put in the freezer and when i took it out i could "crack" the hot melt. should i be concerned in really cold temps? i hunted in neg temps this year.

Most common hot-melt adhesives are either polyolefin or ethylene vinyl acetate. The "glass temperature" is temperature at which the material become brittle, and can break easily on impact. The glass temperature for most common hot melts is around -30 degF, but can be as high as 0 degF, depending on the formulation. Putting some of the material in the freezer to test if it gets brittle is a smart idea.

When I was in Korea, I noted that the students at KNSU used common hobby shop hot-melt to install stainless steel and tungsten points in their X-10's. Good enough for them, good enough for me. Just be careful to prep the parts properly and install them with the proper procedure. I've not lost a point in 10 years.

 

[arrowspeak]

FYI, in my experience Hot Melt glue, in order to 'hold at full strength', likes higher heat than can normally be achieved with a cigarette lighter. I heat my points over a gas stove in the kitchen.

There are two types of hot melt glue used from a glue gun - low temperature and high temperature. The low temperature sticks take a little longer to solidify than high temp sticks, so one can evenly coat an insert, whereas if one uses the high temp stick, one has to act very quickly and carefully inserting the insert fully into the shaft before the glue solidifies.

 

[arrowspeak]

Most common hot-melt adhesives are either polyolefin or ethylene vinyl acetate. The "glass temperature" is temperature at which the material become brittle, and can break easily on impact. The glass temperature for most common hot melts is around -30 degF, but can be as high as 0 degF, depending on the formulation. Putting some of the material in the freezer to test if it gets brittle is a smart idea.

When I was in Korea, I noted that the students at KNSU used common hobby shop hot-melt to install stainless steel and tungsten points in their X-10's. Good enough for them, good enough for me. Just be careful to prep the parts properly and install them with the proper procedure. I've not lost a point in 10 years.

Professor,

Are you speaking of low temp or high temp hot melt glue sticks?

Thanks!

 

[DK Lieu]

Professor,

Are you speaking of low temp or high temp hot melt glue sticks?

Thanks!

A rather timely question. I use the standard hardware store variety glue stick, which is a translucent white color. The glue is neither marked as low temperature nor high temperature. I can get the glue to soften with a hair drier, which typically runs at around 160 degF. I apply the glue with a hardware store variety glue gun, which typically runs around 250 degF. Removal of the points can be done easily by dunking the tips of the arrows in a cup of near-boiling water. My procedure for installing points can be found in a document at the bottom of this page: http://archery.berkeley.edu/about/

That being said, I recently lost my first point in around 12 years. But the target mat was dense foam, caked in snow and ice, at a temperature of around 0 degF. Only one point, the rest seem to be fine, so it may just have been a sloppy installation on that arrow.

 

[zal]

I've always used the softest, white glue. I don't think I've ever lost a point in all the years I've shot. Well maybe some have come loose when pulling from the wooden frames back in the day.

I was told to not heat it too much and use plenty of glue to prevent air pockets by the guy who was teaching me back in the day, I've done that ever since with pretty much perfect results. I use candle flame, but keep glue well out of the flame and heat the point only slightly, so that I can still keep hold of it with my fingers.

 

[dkard]

I started using a coffee cup warmer to heat the points and inserts. They heat to about 140 F or so. Put the points and inserts on the warmer for about 10 minutes while you get arrows ready. I use a low temp hot glue gun to squeeze glue on the points like stated above. I have not tried heating the shafts but may try that next time I insert points.

good luck with the regular low temp hot glue sticks from Walmart.

dave

 

[schreib]

Most common hot-melt adhesives are either polyolefin or ethylene vinyl acetate. The "glass temperature" is temperature at which the material become brittle, and can break easily on impact. The glass temperature for most common hot melts is around -30 degF, but can be as high as 0 degF, depending on the formulation. Putting some of the material in the freezer to test if it gets brittle is a smart idea.

When I was in Korea, I noted that the students at KNSU used common hobby shop hot-melt to install stainless steel and tungsten points in their X-10's. Good enough for them, good enough for me. Just be careful to prep the parts properly and install them with the proper procedure. I've not lost a point in 10 years.
Dennis K. Lieu
Professor of Mechanical Engineering
UC Berkeley

Faculty Advisor, UC Berkeley Archery Club

Best response yet!
Also consider 3M Hot Melt Adhesives, 3764 or 3747.
Here is where to buy them, or at least get free samples:
https://www.gluegun.com/products/3m-3747-glue-sticks#reviews

 

[Viper1]

Guys -

Humm, old thread...

This just came up on the traditional forum.

Unless you're a shop mass producing finished arrows, just spend the extra money for the Easton (low temp) stick glue or similar made for arrows.
The craft shore stuff is usually high temp and just too messy to use on arrows.

NOTE: Most instructions for hot glue and arrows are WRONG.
A lot tell you to heat the stick and apply it to the shank or insert.
By the time you assemble it, it has had enough time to cool and there's no bond.
Rather, heat the insert or shank and touch the glue stick to it, transferring the glue.
Rotate the insert or shank while inserting it into the shaft.

Viper1 out.

 

[kenn1320]

I give the insert enough heat to see it go from dull to shiny(very minimal). I then heat the glue and smear it on the insert. I put down the glue stick and grab the shaft and give the insert another hit of heat and twist the shaft as I apply it onto the insert(held by a field point in a vice). I then unscrew and screw in a larger point as a heat sink to remove heat from the insert. I use the glue sticks from the craft store.

 

[Bender]

I have been concerned about hot melt only twice. Once, a different supplier stepped in and I lost a few points. And for a while an Archery specific low temp was made available by somebody. Knowing that in 3D an arrow may wind up stuck for a long time in a smoking hot target during high summer I never used that product.

I'm currently using a high temp commercial grade and a propane torch to mount inserts. No problems for about the last 10 years.

 

[teebat]

There may be in the composition, but I've always glued my points in with the same craft glue that you use in an ordinary hot glue gun. I can't recall ever losing a point yet.

Same here but I get them from Lowes.

 

[PregnantGuppy]

I'll back what DK Lieu was mentioning and say that the Koreans I know also all use what seems to be store-bought hot glue gun sticks. The glue seems to be pretty low temperature; they often remove points by just heating the arrows with the exhaust of the heating units, or by dunking them in some water from the kettles they use for tea and coffee.

And I'll add my own anecdotal evidence in that I used to use Easton hot melt exclusively, but one time in an emergency I just used the random craft hot melt sticks we had at home. They held well, so I kept using that glue afterwards, and I haven't lost a point in the years since.

 

[S.B.]

I have been assembling arrows with dollar store buck-a-dozen glue sticks for decades, just like Rick recommends in his book, never lost a point. Finally I decided to get fancy and paid 5 bucks for bohning glue stick. What a mistake that was! On hot summer day points started to get loose and pulling a bit from shafts, but real surprise was when I opened my bow case with spare arrows that was sitting on the sun. All points were out almost all the way, like 2 inches, just air pressure inside heated shaft pushing them out. It was a challenge to clean inside shafts off that bohning stuff and get back to normal.
By the way the best instruction for arrow assembly is by Don Rabska in Easton arrow manual, but who needs manuals when there are forums?

 

[caspian]

I presume you mean the blue stuff. don't use it, it's not good. stick with the Easton glue, it's relatively low melt, doesn't go crystalline hard, and is cheap enough that there's no point in trying to find something equivalent.

 

[anmactire]

I have always found the Bohning blue stuff works a treat, but I am in a very mild climate with pretty small temperature deviation year round and a "hot day" is about 24celcius here.
I have only had one issue with it ever and it was with a point with a short shank. Arrow struck the bale, point flew out and hit the wall a few feet behind it.

 

[caspian]

it's 14 degrees science outside now here, but high 30s is normal during summer. the blue stuff is simply not adequate for the warm temperatures. that's not just personal opinion, it's the result of repeated observation until everyone involved got sick of losing points and threw the stuff in the bin.

just shooting an arrow into a layered stramit butt generates enough frictional heat to remelt the glue.

 

[schreib]

it's 14 degrees science outside now here, but high 30s is normal during summer. the blue stuff is simply not adequate for the warm temperatures. that's not just personal opinion, it's the result of repeated observation until everyone involved got sick of losing points and threw the stuff in the bin.

just shooting an arrow into a layered stramit butt generates enough frictional heat to remelt the glue.

OK. . . so in terms us non-metricized can understand; 57°F to about 100°F, by science you meant Celsius. dang phone conversion software!

Now, I just could NOT figure what "layered stramit butt" means! Ha! keeps us guessing!

But, got your point: Don't buy the blue goo.