Are you running a second string nock such that the arrow nock fits between the 2 nock sets? If not, do it. See what happens with that first.

A shelf strike like that indicates an arrow that is too stiff. Sure, anything is possible, but that is the most likely cause.

Got any full length shafts left? Try that with 125 grain points and see what happens. See if things get better, or worse, and thereby get an idea of which way to go with your tuning.

 

Yes, I already have two string nocks, one above and one below the nock.

I've also tried carbon shafts ... 700 spine, full length, with 125 grain points. Those should be WAY weak for 35# -- still getting shelf strike.

But I will try a full length wood shaft as well, with 125 grain points. That would be about 31.5" BOP.

 

I'm actually a little afraid to try that full-length arrow. If I run the numbers through Stu Miller's spine calculator, that arrow has a dynamic spine of about 19, and my longbow wants in the neighborhood of 40. I don't want to break the arrow trying to shoot it.

 

Well, OK like I said anything is possible. While learning to tune and shoot selfbows I did wind up stuck and confused for a while with a set up with an arrow that was WAY weak and did get shelf strikes that way. Its pretty uncommon though and the weak condition has to be pretty extreme for a weak arrow to generate shelf strikes.

A couple ways to check for that would be to go to a 70 grain point and/or significantly lower brace height. Maybe for some reason you and your particular set call for an abnormally stiff arrow?

 

I'm not an expert on wood arrows, but I'm using 30", 36-40 shafts and 125gr. points, with a 32# Ω Imperial, and they are slightly stiff.

 

Everything you have written makes it sound like you are dealing with arrows that are significantly too weak. Kegan's bows are of relatively high performance, I'm not surprised that they need a little stiffer arrow than the usual longbow. Giving him a call might be a good thing to do, he is known for being helpful.

The contact confuses things since contact is often caused by too stiff an arrow, but not always.

I would go back to either Stu Miller's calculator or the one at 3Rivers (they may be the same thing)...http://www.3riversarchery.com/dynamic-spine-arrow-calculator-from-3rivers-archery.html

Enter your values as accurately as possible, measure if necessary. I've found that with good input they will give you a tunable arrow. If you are intending on hunting using a little heavier point weight will give you some tuning room, try 150-175 grains. You will also find that the selection of good broadheads is better in a bit heavier weight. If you aren't going to hunt there is no advantage to heavier points.

The same with arrow length, if you input a bit longer arrow than you could live with you then have some tuning length to cut off if you need to.

You may well end up buying new shafts. In my opinion either aluminum or carbon are much easier to deal with and tune than wood arrows, especially when you are just starting out. I understand the appeal of woodies (and share it to a point), but tuning wooden arrows by shooting bare shafts can be frustrating since each one is an individual. It's certainly not impossible but you definitely want to start with very well matched arrows ($$) and even then you will find some that just won't cooperate.

 

Yeah, I'm not planning on hunting, so this is all just for target (mostly 3D actually). This is my first experience with wood arrows, which I bought to compete in the NFAA Longbow class. Otherwise I'd be sticking to carbon!

Stu Miller's calculator seems to indicate that a good match might be either a 26" arrow with 125 gn point (better FOC, but heavier overall) or a 27" arrow with 100 gn point. I had to make some guesses with the GPI of the wood shafts by matching the actual weight of the finished arrow with the total weight calculated by the program, but it seems to match well around 9.4 GPI.

I would assume that the finish you put on the arrow would generally tend to make it stiffer? So that even if you got, say, a 35# wood shaft, after all the finishing, it would be more stiff? I wonder by how much. Don't have a spine tester handy unfortunately ... maybe I can twist hubby's arm to jerry-rig something.

 

I ran your arrow numbers through Stu's calculator and found them too weak for your bow as well. @ 30" they are WAY to weak. Nock left also indicates too weak a shaft... Judging by what I see in Stu's calculator I'd go with 35-40# shafts, 27" long, if you want to stick to a 100 grain point. Otherwise, keep your shafts and try a 75 grain point with 27" length.

Also, where is your nock point from the shelf (how far up or down the string)?

 

Also, where is your nock point from the shelf (how far up or down the string)?

Right now, the bottom of the upper nock point is just about 0.5" above square.

 

This is a poster child case of a..."False Weak"...condition.

Note where the OP stated the lipstick smear starts and ends.....at the back of the shaft.

I've Robin hooded full length .700's w/ 80gr glue-in points off 42#'s worth of Robertfishes limbs on a DAS ELite with very near 28"s of DL.

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts this is a "False Weak" situation.

 

The easiest thing to try is just raising your nocking point. A low nocking point is by far the most common cause of the contact you are experiencing. Don't be afraid to go up more than you think you should, especially if you are shooting three under. I shoot split and my nocking point is usually around 1/2"-9/16" from the bottom of the top nocking point to a line perpendicular to the string and flush with the shelf. When I shoot three under it's significantly higher, up around 3/4"-7/8" above the same line. I use a second nocking point below the nock.

With just field points, you should be able to shoot a pretty wide range of spines (fletched arrows) with good accuracy and no contact at reasonable yardages. That is the premise behind bare shaft tuning, that unless you are way off the fletching will correct the flight. Serious tuning really becomes important for long range shooting and shooting with broadheads.

I think Bender is pretty good with bare shaft tuning wooden shafts, certainly better than me. For many years now I only shoot woodies when I get an itch to make a dozen or so. I don't do much if any bare shaft tuning with woodies, I just make sure broadheads and field points of the same weight shoot to the same spot. It's a similar process but not as precise or touchy as shooting bare shafts.

I have found that with my recurves I have to use wooden shafts stiffer than you might think. My arrows are longer, usually 30"-31" and my draw length is 29" so the spine is naturally going to be a bit high, but if I remember right I was last using 80#-85# spine shafts for a 56# recurve. That is completely irrelevant to you except that you might need a stiffer arrow than you might think, Kegan's bows are known for being pretty darn good in the speed department.

One issue you have with woodies and bare shaft tuning is that not only do they vary from each other in spine but also within weight. Aluminum or carbon will have some variance in spine but they are almost identical in weight, at least within +/- a few grains. I've seen woodies that had similar spine but varied significantly in weight. That weight difference will make a significant difference in the dynamic behavior, ask Mr. Newton (Force = mass x acceleration). So basically you have two variables to deal with, weight and spine, where one affects the other.

In my opinion get your fletched arrows flying well, without contact, and call it good for now. My guess is if you play around with your nocking point position that might be all it takes. Start high, higher than you think, like up in the 1" above level range. Slowly work your way down, if you want to shoot bare shafts fine but otherwise just watch for porpoising of the arrow (up/down). If you do tune with bare shafts, make sure you are tuning with several. Even with the consistency of carbons it's a very good idea to use two or three in case you arbitrarily grab one that's not quiet perfect, and if they aren't perfect they won't fly well without fletching. Then you just end up chasing your tail.

 

I think you guys are overthinking this. Too weak an arrow will do all kinds of crazy deflection which can absolutely cause the shelf strike you're describing.
I'm sorry Easykeeper, I'm not meaning to call you out but 1/2-9/16" high seems ridiculous to me, nock points on all my bows are 3/16" high, even on the girlfriend's 20# recurve. Don't forget, bare shaft nock high also indicates the nock point is too high...

Sprinke,
Please try putting a 75gr point on one of your arrows @ 27", and lower that nock point. Hell, I'll even mail you a 75gr point if you want, I have some sitting here.

 

Sounds familiar, sprinkle! My new Imperial is two months old, 42lbs at my 30" draw length. I have gone thru some of the same tuning issues. My 500 spine arrows were waggling like they were having fletching contact so I went to 600 spine with lighter points, 125gr, and they flew better. Bare shaft tested these arrows and at 1/2"nock height they were barely nock high but my fletched arrows were bouncing off the shelf, porpoising and hitting slightly high. At 3/4" nock height bare shafts are nockhigh but fletched arrows are hitting level and on target. Most of this shooting is three fingers under at 15 and 20 yards. I have settled in so far at 3/4" nock height, like Moe Boe would say. With all this fiddling I also improved my alignment, particularly my string arm and elbow alignment, rotational draw, back tension etc... Arrows are flying well out to 50 yds. I agree with Easykeeper on nock height!

 

I only have experience with a toelke long bow...but at that poundage 600 easton axis will work everytime. You may get fletched 700 to work but I'm betting 600 will be more forgiving. In my experience you absolutely have to play with the brace. More brace will make stiff impacts move back to right and less brace will make weak impacts move left.