My first experience with single bevel was when IronWill introduced their version. First deer I shot with it down within 50 yards. It is always in my quiver, along with Grim Reaper micro hades Pro.

 

Tried them but could never get the edge sharp. I purchased three different devices but it's a skill I didn't acquire.

 

Mind if I ask what alternative insures a extremely sharp edge for your BH selection since, trying the single bevel options?

 

I've never been completely sold on the concept of small cut 2b single bevels without bleeders. I don't think they are bad per say - I get it if you're really low on energy for elk sized game or hogs. Outside of that I've never been able to logic myself into a 1" single bevel without bleeders, especially a unvented 3:1 or even a 2:1. It's self defeating. The concern with penetration is vastly overblown IMHO. It's just not a problem for the average compound shooters energy, decent arrow weight, sharp broadheads and properly setup arrow/bow. I have yet to see a valid argument made that says a super sharp compact 1.25 cut single bevel won't out perform for the widest variety of scenarios. Or a 3/4b for that matter. While there are Ashby studies that show penetration benefits - it just hasn't been repeated with a compound and there's wayyyyyyyyyy too much user data that contradicts it.

Listen to guys like Aron Synder on Kifarucast who have shot a ridiculous amount of animals with a bow - compound and trad. He shoots 80# at 29"ish draw and top shelf arrow/broadheads. He says your nuts to think you can reliably bust knuckles or the "t" of a scapula. So setting up your bow for that one low odds circumstance really just doesn't make sense. Set yourself up to cover the widest variety of scenarios. This means to shoot a broadhead that performs well all around - solid enough for most bone impact and cuts/touches enough vitals to get the job done reliably. You're be kicking yourself if you hit to far back with a small single bevel and you'll wish you had more cut. Reality is that getting through a knuckle is unlikely and it's a shot that shouldn't be taken. And if you don't get through the knuckle on the near side... alright that's the absolute best case scenario for a wound. That animal will most likely live.

Look at guys like the Hunting Public. Watching their videos I can't honestly saw that they have increased their lethality with their setups. They will talk big when they work - then don't mention the broadhead and slow arrows at all when they hit something back and call the dogs in. Which happens often.. It's confirmation bias at it's best. Shoot an arrow/broadhead combo that is based in reality and sets you up best for all scenarios. My vote goes to a broadhead with a minimum of 1.5" of total cutting surface - preferably equal to or larger than 1-1/8" cut. Simple single bevels are easy to sharpen which is a big benefit, there's plenty of them out there in .

@Mossy-Back has a saying "Perhaps by building heavy, slow Plan B arrows you are making it more likely that Plan B will occur... " - I'll expand on this and say perhaps by shooting long, unvented, small cut broadheads you are making it more likely that you'll be making Plan B occur more often. Actually, I'd describe bone you won't get through as plan C as it's clearly less likely than a shot too far back just due to anatomy.

 

He says your nuts to think you can reliably bust knuckles or the "t" of a scapula. So setting up your bow for that one low odds circumstance really just doesn't make sense. Set yourself up to cover the widest variety of scenarios. This means to shoot a broadhead that performs well all around - solid enough for most bone impact and cuts/touches enough vitals to get the job done reliably. You're be kicking yourself if you hit to far back with a small single bevel and you'll wish you had more cut. Reality is that getting through a knuckle is unlikely and it's a shot that shouldn't be taken. And if you don't get through the knuckle on the near side... alright that's the absolute best case scenario for a wound. That animal will most likely live.

I’ve been shooting single bevels for a decade and a half and it has paid off tremendously. The point isn’t that we’re aiming for bone, it’s when bone is hit unintentionally. People need to stop saying that it’s a shot that shouldn’t be taken. No ethical hunter is aiming for bone intentionally. I shot a big doe when she just happened to be in the middle of a foot stomp and smashed her humerus knuckle to pieces and filled my freezer from her. This season, I shot a nearly 200 lb 8 point but had a timing issue with my rest that had fletching contact. At 19 yards, the arrow blasted through the knuckle of the femur, severed femoral artery and stuck in the opposing leg. Sh*t happens And there aren't any mechanicals that I know of that can do what these single bevels can do.

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My experience with broadheads and from what I've seen from others has more to do with the sharpness of the broadhead. Get them sharp, make a good shot, and they will do the job no matter the design.

 

Exactly! My one buddy (who is an excellent hunter) is obsessed with the single bevel, high foc craze. I am sticking with my double bevel, hair popping sharp broadheads and regular 400ish grain arrow. I almost never have a problem getting a high speed pass through!

 

Also, killed more deer with slick tricks than anything else I've tried combined.

 

In Africa most PH guides will advice you to use 2 blade fixed broad heads on big and heavy boned game. For medium and small game you can use anything. Yes is subjective, but the field results favours the 2 blade fixed broad heads.

 

I have only tried a few single bevels & have been very satisfied with the edge I am able to achieve. The two I have tried are are Cut throats S7 & Grizzly stick redline offerings.

 

I won't try them because they aren't ideal on gut shots and that is the most common bad shot by a country mile (for several reasons).

I also feel that the turning breaking bone is unproven and we just have to go off the words of ranch fairy and ashby...I trust my thinking and experience more than theirs. For all we know, a double bevel might be better at breaking bone.


They do not come off as the type that are actively trying to disprove their hypotheses....which is actually what scientists are supposed to be doing. They instead like to promote their ideas.


I think an authority could make an argument that just wedging the bone apart without trying to twist it is better (aka using a double bevel).....and everyone that wants to believe it or likes the guy would think that is also intuitively obvious.

Also, the turning inside the animal to make up for 2 blades is somewhat unproven and overblown. Lusk's gel tests don't show a ton of rotation. I've heard folks say "well of course it turns more inside an animal". As if that is obvious. It isn't obviously correct though, they just want it to be.

I've broken the shoulder blade near the socket of 2 mature, large bucks (and dragged them out) using a 420 grain arrow with a 125 grain QAD Exodus up front and being pushed by a Bowtech Revolt on comfort setting with 60 lbs draw weight, 30 inch draw length, and an excellent tune/arrow flight.

 

I’m with ya. I have killed a few elk with single bevel, and seen a few more killed with them, and the biggest difference I’ve found with single bevels is they are a pain to get out of foam

I don’t buy them being that much better breaking bone, especially with many of the single bevel designs offered

I really don’t believe a 1” wide 2 blade is the best option unless you are shooting very low energy

if it came down to it, and I was going on a hunt that maximized penetration of my setup was the main goal, I would pick a Valkyrie blood eagle over any single bevel personally

they only rotate when there is force being applied, and I have never seen much rotation through vitals, just muscle, bone, foam, when rotation is forced. They aren’t my thing

I will not rule a head out because it’s single bevel, but I certainly won’t pick on based on that

if I’m shooting a single bevel, I would always prefer the same head in a double bevel

I personally think they are conceptually over rated. One thing I think they do that’s beneficial is make a slightly better entrance/exit for blood flow vs the same head in a double bevel… barely, but the s cut is slightly bigger than a slit… pulling them out of foam is a much bigger con than the s cut is a pro though

 

Suppose I have come around to using the single bevels due to wishing to be more comfortable aiming for the highly vascular good stuff up front. In over 30 years of archery hunting I have yet to gut shot a deer. Knock on wood. Ill defiantly not ever be trying to gut shoot a deer. So while I aim to avoid heavy bone, I do feel a greater sense of confidence that bone breaking potential of the Tanto tip Single bevels with structural integrity should that barrier come into play.

Field studies done by Ashby do not offer irrefutable evidence of bone breaking potential, Though I am of the opinion you will be hard pressed to achieve a better study with real world practicality in mind. They Have gone a very long ways to showing how a well designed system does improve penetration when large bone is encountered.

Fairly sure that I have not read any Ashby study on lethality of a gut shot with any system. I can only imagine that good arguments were made that we have no business placing a arrow in the guts with humane kills in mind. That is how I would approach the subject of gut shot game. Though I have heard that single bevels do surprisingly well in the unfortunate event of such poor shot placment.

If what you're using is reliably getting the job done then I am happy for you.

I can agree that turning inside of the animal may be overblown though not insignificant.

 

Single bevels have a much weaker edge geometry on average (more acute angle...weaker but "sharper"). If you sharpen both sides of a blade with a 20 degree bevel, then the resulting edge is 40 degrees and stronger (aka double bevel). If you do this with a single bevel, then it will be a 20 degree edge and much weaker but a better slicer (chef knife versus outdoor knife) That is half of any advantage a single bevel has, finer edge, which can be achieved with a double bevel, and the fact that Ashby doesn't mention this makes me question his brains and his intentions.

This weaker edge is precisely why single bevels often have a reinforced/tanto tip. Double bevels don't need it.

I've read some of Ashby's stuff and his studies, and, frankly, I'm not impressed. It would not survive peer review and get published.

I am super surprised that an experienced bowhunter hasn't gut shot a deer ever. That's awesome, my hat is off.

The response related to "no business in the guts" can be used against single bevels as in "no business near bone". So that isn't a point.

The reasons gut shots are so much more common than a heavy bone hit (and why someone that has killed 20 plus deer with a bow NEVER gut shooting is so surprising) are because 1. the surface area of the guts (lethal but non-ideal areas...not all are technically guts) is VASTLY larger than the surface area of heavy bone where a single bevel would be needed (if in fact single bevels break bone better....I haven't seen anything to conclude this other than it being supposedly self-evident) so this is the "random dart throw" argument which is a valid simplification in part and 2. deer typically only walk forward and any movement forward during arrow flight will cause the arrow to hit back and towards the guts and away from the bones of the shoulder/front leg.

 

I love the single bevel idea. Although I have only shot two animals with them, (one mature buck and a coyote), Neither of the knew they had been shot and went less than 40 yards. My biggest piece of advice I can give is learn how to sharpen. But that goes for any head. Not just single bevels. Would I ever steer away from single bevel's? I definitely could. But it will take something very impressive to lead me away. If you are choosing a head because you might gut shoot something, that is a terrible decision. I want something that allows me to take any shot angle given and not have to avoid bone.

 

Guess all I can say is i have tried the single bevel's on 2 deer in the last 2 years & in these 2 samples there has been very little edge break down when passing through the deer & deep in to the sandy soil after passing through. won't take much to touch up the edge & take a few more deer with each broad head.

I will sharpen with an alternate angle for the sake of easier sharpening. Edge retention should benefit as well with a steeper angle on the leading edge..

Still have a doe tag & for the sake of testing I'd like to fill that archery doe tag with this broadhead from this season. Reality is I am not aware of any need to reduce doe population in areas that I have access to close to home. Will continue to look for options in the coming late season weeks. Though no high expectations.

 

I tried the single bevel thing. I just felt like I was not taking full advantage of my horsepower (75#, 30”) so I went back to a big mechanical. Just my opinion, but causing the most trauma possible is the best way to ensure a dead deer. I shot 2 does back to back this year with a tuffhead SB and a grim reaper carni-four. After skinning both out that evening you couldn’t argue which caused more wreckage.

 

I’ll be trying the single bevel again. I have cleavers and crocs which both fly very well. My philosophy on killing with the bow is placement with a super sharp head avoid bone but be ready for it. When u zip through the rib cage they don’t realize they’re hit and they usually die within site or hearing distance. When they get hit hard and know they’re hit they run for their life and need to be tracked. I’m going to switch my crossbow heads out from large mechanicals to fixed coc heads.

 

The bone breaking thing came from the medical field, when performing surgeries or whatever they use single bevel blade to break bone and double bevel to shave it. It’s not a broadhead thing it came from the medical field.

 

I Have yet to hit large bone with the single bevel. Heck zi am having a hard time hitting a bone with my single bevels on 2 for 2 deer. Won't mind if I keep up this practice of avoiding large bones. As long as blood trails remain under 50 yards like I have experienced thus far the single bevels will likely continue to be my go to BH choice.

 

I don't see myself using anything but single bevels. There is no such thing as too much penetration. They are simple and effective, just how I like all my archery gear.

 

There is no such thing as too much penetration.

There is such a thing as too small of cut though. As long as you keep the cut surface size in the normal range - say 1.5"+ then I think they're great.

This tiny cut logic to me is like saying you should limit your towing capacity of your diesel 3/4 ton to that of a Tacoma truck. Maximize your lethality by increasing your odds of hitting something vital while still most likely achieving the pass through. There's a growing number of good size cut single bevels. The upcoming Trifecta looks interesting.

 

I think they are ideal for lower poundage set ups. My kid uses them because he doesn't have the power yet. But if your pulling anything over 50-55lbs I don't think its just a huge value added.

 

Haven't tried single bevels, but I have a short draw length, 26.5", and don't pull high weight so been thinking of making the switch. I don't have a desire to go to a much higher draw weight as I've had shoulder problems from a motorcyle accident.

 

Crimson talon cleaver, crocs and Magnus just dropped their single bevel. All very affordable compared to most other oh a2 also looks good.

 

I've used the Iron Will 200 gr SBs for 2 years now with great results, but not necessarily better than anything else I've used. I have lost a great buck with a mechanical from hitting the front shoulder and not getting enough penetration. Maybe a SB wouldn't have made it through either, but if the odds were even 5% higher Id have taken it.

One thing I've seen in this thread is the discussion of the dreaded gut shot. And I don't know why people dread it so. It obviously something a hunter should never shoot for, but out of empathy for the animals suffering, not the fear of losing it. I've been on probably 80 track jobs in my life between rifle and archery, and I have never seen a gut shot deer lost IF you follow proper protocol once you are certain it was a gut shot. Don't matter if it's a monster mechanical or 1 in SB, if it was solid guts, its 100% fatal from Sepsis. The times we could not recover game were due to hunter error not recognizing what they did and pushing too hard to quickly to pursue the animal.

 

I see ArcheryTalk is full-swing in the SB vs DB season. One of my favorite times of the year.

 

I'm sure it's all seeing is believing, if any of us drop one quick with anything we're sold. It's all on the setup. every broadhead will do what it's ment to if placed properly, and tuned correctly. Tuning is very important for straight entry and behind the pin accuracy. There is a big misconception that you can shoot a bad tune with a mech and it's all OK. In reality that's why mechs get a bad reputation. I believe it's hard to beat a well tuned fixed in any setup, but even harder with a mech in a high ke bow. So if fail safe is the end goal it's hard to argue a tuned single edge fixed coc. I love them all, mech, fixed, and hybrid.

 

I got some korekut sb heads and am not 100% sold on em. I put one through a pig last week, full pass through, didn't even look like it slowed down. Autopsy shows single bevel carnage, destroyed long bone on the entrance, and destruction to a blown-out rib in the back. Awesome devastation tbh.

Still not sold though, the wounds were small. They are still in the quiver though.

 

Keep us posted

 

I'm a fixed over mechanical guy but I am trying to venture out and try some mechanicals. As far as fixed are concerned, I prefer once piece steel construction 3 blade heads. However, I am planning to try some 2 and 4 blades this year. My single bevel of choice is the VPA Omega 200gr left bevel. VPA is local to me so I wanted to support them, and the idea of being able to easily sharpen a single bevel just by laying it flat on a diamond stone is appealing to me. No extra jig to buy. I also picked up some TOTA original 100gr. I'm open to trying pretty much anything but I still have reservations about certain designs. I've seen plenty of animals killed with single bevels. They've been used successfully for quite a long time. I have no worries that they will get the job done but I understand the desire for wanting a bigger cut. I'll have to reserve judgment on the Omegas until the fall.

 

I never said I was well-versed. It just seems like on most of your comments you are biased against single bevels, with little to no real world experience. Maybe I’m wrong. I’ve used mechanicals and single bevel Broadheads. I’ve had good experiences with both. I would say probably more good experiences with single bevels, at this point. The argument that single bevels are not a good option because there is a scenario you may hit guts is just ridiculous.…. I think a lot of people shooting mechanicals hit back more often because of the fear of hitting the shoulder blade, that is my personal experience anyway. I agree a mechanical offers more forgiveness when hitting a deer in the guts. Just like I would agree that a single bevel offers more forgiveness when hitting a deer in the shoulder. They both have their place for a wide variety of Scenarios. There is not a perfect broadhead for Any situation

 

Where do you get the “little to no real world experience” I have used them quite a bit, and off the top of my head have killed 4 bulls with them personally and seen several more killed with them, I have probably 2 dozen various single bevels currently. My bias against them if I have bias is because they suck to get out of targets, and they aren’t magic like many SB users claim, and most touting their awesomeness is regurgitated Ashby propaganda, but i still use them a bit, but they mostly aren’t worth the trouble of pulling them out of targets.

back to my Question, what proves how stupid Raisin is? What did he say that would make you say that? If he said stupid things, you should correct him and set the record straight, and I’m curious too

 

I've only shot 1 deer, a mature doe with a Grizzly single bevel. The shot was 22 yards, just behind the right front shoulder and the exit was behind the left front shoulder. The angle was high to low, due to being in a tree stand. Nothing to speak of for a blood trail, but she ran 40 yards and dropped.
The bow was an Elite Ritual 30 at 57# and a 29" DL. The arrow was a Gold Tip Hunter XT 300 spine at 27", 100 gr. brass insert, 150 gr. Grizzly single bevel and 3" feathers. TAW 525.

I rushed the shot 2 weeks earlier and skipped an arrow off of her back. I never thought I'd see her again, but 2 weeks later I was in a different location and redeemed myself by getting a calm kill shot.

Exit Wound:

2 weeks prior....