Brian -

IMHO, with a Hill bow, you either have to know what you're getting yourself into or you'll be disappointed - at first. The classic Hill design of a straight, slightly reflexed limbed bow, can be a shock (as in hand shock) to someone who has been used to shooting only "modern" recurves. Since you own a Montana, you have a basic idea, but in my experience, the Hill care a little worse - at first.

OK, the "at first" part may be the issue. While you can get a locator, dished or straight grip, there will always be hand shock. The funny thing is that playing with hand position and "stuff", after a few weeks of regular shooting, the hand shock becomes less noticeable. No, the amount never really changes, regardless of what you do, but most people do adapt quite well to it. I find it akin to the chimes on a grandfather clock. Whether you find them pleasant or annoying, after a while, you just don't notice them any more.

Speed is pretty much as advertised, about 115 fps + draw weight, so a 50# bow should shoot about 165 fps, with the right arrow. Speaking of arrows, they typically take a spine of about 10# lighter than a comparable weight recurve. That's due to how far the arrow is off center shot and relatively inefficient limb cross-section.

I've found no real difference in performance or feel based on the number of laminations. (Only talking about bamboo here.) My favorite is still the Tembo, which only has 3.

Fit an finish is generally good.

Again, IMHO, most people into this kind of archery will try a Hill or Hill style bow sooner or later. Some people love them and some hate them, unfortunately the only way to find out if it's for you, is to get one and shoot it for at least a few weeks, to the exclusion of your other bows.

BTW - I got my first Hill (Tembo) in 1975 and my last in 2005 (Redman). Also have a Big 5 and two Hill look alikes. One by Ben Pearson (Pro Staff 5000), that I feel shoots on par with the Hills, if not better and a Jefferies (Tradition) that never quite came to hand for me.

Viper1 out.

 

Northern Mist longbows; checkout the interview in the latest issue of Traditional Bowhunter.

 

Thank you for your responses. And Viper, the Montana that i shot did have some thump in the hand that i did not know what it was, because i was at the Shop looking for my first bow and i shot the Montana, Grizzly and Super K there and i could definitly feel the difference. Not so much a bad feeling but I could feel it. I now know it is what people refer to as hand shock but it was not "teeth rattling" or anything like that. Would you say that is what a typical Hill will be like? You can feel it, but its not like it was unpleasant.?

 

Brian -

It's the same sort of thing, but most Hills will be a little worse in my experience. Again, with regular and exclusive shooting, most people do adapt to it after a few weeks, but some don't. Can't say in your case. Hand shock is funny, ALL bows have some, but the spectrum is pretty wide. Sometimes you can totally dismiss hand shock on your regular bow, until you begin shooting one with less and then go back.

Look, if you've got the Hill bug, you're not going to be happy until you get or at least try one - so go for it. Hills do retain a lot of their resale value if you decide you don't like it.

Viper1 out.

 

Interested in Hill style bows? Check out this thread, might be interesting to you...539 pages of Hill aficionados comparing notes...http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=098600

 

does anyone have a contact number for sunset hills archery, i can not find anything on them?

 

I've owned a few different Hill-style bows and they are a little different breed compared to thier more curvy hybrid counterparts. As others have already mentioned they will have a bit more feedback on the shot compared to most other bows but that isn't always the case. I've owned and shot hybrids and recurves that jarred the hand badly as well as Hill-style bows that did the same. A well-built, correctly tillered Hill-style bow with limbs that return evenly should not cause painful hand shock. You'll feel some thump when the limbs hit bottom but it shouldn't be much. Poorly tillered and timed limbs are probaly the reason these bows have such a bad rap for handshock... that and the belief you gotta bow heel the crap out of the grip and hold it tight. Those thing only amplify the negative effects of handshock.

If you compare the Hill-style bow to others you'll find, in general, they have a little more feedback and they won't be as quick as the more aggressive hybrids and recurves. However, the long working limbs are very smooth pulling. They have a little less preload so the draw cycle is softer at the beginning and builds very evenly to full draw which makes the bows oftentimes feel lighter than marked. The stability of the limbs is excellent both vertically and torsionally and many folks find these bows to be very forgiving and tolerant of mistakes. And, these bows tend to be some of the quietest shooting bows you can get you hands on... especially the string follow variants.

My personal favorite is my recently acquired Whippenstick Classic. Very reasonably priced. It's a string follow bow with a mild locator grip. It pulls super smooth, it barely makes a sound when it goes off and it's extremely easy to shoot well. I spent a couple hours roving around shooting stumps this afternoon and had a blast. I know it's not as quick as my carbon backed hybrids of the same maker but honestly I don't care. I was shooting stumps and leaves and haybales out to 50 yards and I had no problems at all with consistently connecting on targets. It may sound silly but I really enjoy roving around with a very simple, time-tested design. I'm really looking forward to more afternoons with it and chasing some critters.

 

It may sound silly but I really enjoy roving around with a very simple, time-tested design. I'm really looking forward to more afternoons with it and chasing some critters.

............and much like Str8t above ...
roving with a Hill style bow is one of the great pleasures of archery for me ... plus all the cool kids who sit up the bac of the bus shoot D shape Longbows

Make that X3

 

I have been shooting D shape longbows for quite a while now and they are my prefferred bow type . Do they have more bump at the shot ? Yep ! But a well made one with well timed limbs should have minimal recoil/ "bump" and shouldn't be a teeth rattling experience . Note I have had several that were genuine 'teeth rattlers' much as I have some that are smoothe and shock free . They are also IMHO a bit more sensitive to brace height , string material choice and arrow selection than their r/d , centreshot coucins ...

Bow and bowyers that are currently on my shelf and that I'd recommend

Jim Belcher at Belcher Bows / Sky Archery
- His Union Jack longbow is a fine fine shooting bow that has served me well competitavley and in the filed chasing critters ... quick build time too . Perhaps my favourite bow I own

Howard Hill Archery
- Craig and ason make a fine bow , great prices and fantastic customer service . I have been shooting their bows on and off for tewnty years and will likely be shooting them again still in another twenty years ... quickst build time in the business

David Miller Longbows
- a work of art ... a beautiful bow that just lobs them in where I am looking . A student of John Schulz so there is some extra cool factor there too !

Northern Mist
- Steve's bows are just great shooters and the craftsmanship is flawless

Great Northern Bow Company
- Their "Traditional" bow is , like all thier work just flawless .

Bow that I have on order
- A Whppenstick Classic
- A Sunset Hill from my brother from another mother Nate Steen .....

Just one more word ... I always favour longer bows [ my ILF Curves are 62" - 64"] and these are certainly no exception . I draw 26 1/2 and prefer 66" is string follow bow and 68" is a reflexed bow .....


and much like Str8t above ...
roving with a Hill style bow is one of the great pleasures of archery for me ... plus all the cool kids who sit up the bac of the bus shoot D shape Longbows

 

For a straight Hill-style bow, the Bama Hunter is very nice!
For a reflex-deflex design, the Abbott bows are fantastic !!!

 

I absolutley agree with Viper! I dont own any "traditional "D" style longbows" anymore due to so much hand shock. I only shoot reflex deflex longbows and think they are so much more smooth to shoot. That doesnt mean there arent good "D" style longbows out there, this is my personal preference.

 

thats me as well

 

I've shot and owned both a couple of HH bows...as well as my MR Hamilton Scorpion...and there is a vast difference in hand shock between the 2..Hand shock is one of the main reasons many LB aficionados shoot with a bent bow arm.....and is also why most who love these types of bows don't shoot them like any other..Hand shock is also tempered by different limb building technique.....trapezoidal vs flat...grip angle...string materials...and of course draw weight...To me...there is a unique feel to casting heavy arrows from them..that you get from no other style of bow...and that gives one greater pleasure being accurate with one over a modern recurve..but...for many...the trade offs in speed and feel are too much to make a complete switch...which is why many like and shoot the hybrids...


I'll say this much...put as many in your hands as you possible can...and decide what you really like on how they feel when you shoot them...before springing for one...Then you can decide which one to go for...they all will have a different feel to them...

Mac

 

Is there a direct relationship between handshock and draw weight? Would the handshock be much less with a 30# longbow + 10gpp arrow vs. 50# longbow + 10gpp arrow?

 

I have several Hill longbows and one is a Jerry Hill Wildcat II. I do not get the handshock everyone is talking about but I have never tried to shoot a light arrow from them. My lightest bow is 60 pounds and my lightest arrow is 650 grains so I am guessing that people who complain about handshock are shooting arrows too light for the bow.

 

I'm a Hill shooter. Three of mine...Big Five and 2 Tembo's

 

 

I feel compelled to weigh in because I have an interrupting buttinsky blabber mouth type personality. I am aware (and a little embarrassed) that I have tremendously less authority and experience than other previous responders on this thread.

I have only been shooting traditional bows daily for a number of months (lost track), but I have played with them off and on a little bit for 49 years. I have recurves, Hill-style longbows, and a deflexed/reflexed semi-longbow. I mostly acquired these bows haphazardly over many years while being a compound bow shooter. I was more visually attracted to them rather than considering them as shooters. I was strongly prejudiced against the Hill-style due to fears of “hand shock”.

I started shooting a few shots from each of my bows during each daily session. I have gravitated toward shooting two because they are simply the most fun for me among the bunch.

The two are both Hill-style. They have straight thin low-hold grips. Neither has an arrow shelf.

I have made no attempt to tune the bows or arrows. I just stuck a string on each. I set the brace height at 8 inches. I put a brass nock-set at a half inch. They are both quiet. They both draw very smooth. They are both pleasant on the release. They both put arrows where I am looking at 5 and 10 yards (I know!, but that is my daily opportunity).

I bought a new Bear Super Kodiak in 2011. I attempted to shoot the Super Kodiak with the same completely relaxed bow hand grip that I used for my dead in the hand 72-lb compound bow. Upon the release the Super Kodiak leaped out of my hand and landed on the ground several feet in front of me. I then used a wrist tether. It still jumped out of my hand, but it could not get away. I eventually found that annoying. I learned to grip it gently such that it could not get away even without a tether. The Bear Super Kodiak is a beautiful wonderful bow, but it is far from dead in the hand. Among my bows the Super Kodiak seems to have the most “hand shock” followed by a Ben Pearson recurve.

My Hill-style longbows seem to be clearly slower and less powerful should that be a problem for you. I would not worry at all about “hand shock” until you discover what that means in regard to “YOU”.

I mean no offense to others with differing experiences.

 

Look at 21st Century Longbow's before you decide!

 

Better get one, a man has got to know.

If you want a heavy draw weight there are a lot of them on the used market for cheap. Lighter draw weights, not many, they are keepers. - lbg