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I watched someone derail a Mathew’s at my archery shop…

7.2K views 93 replies 39 participants last post by  Dickenscpa  
#1 ·
To preface this I have only a few ideas of what happened but I’m still not entirely sure If I have every single detail.

I stopped in for a package of vanes to do some fletching. Naturally I was poking around the wall of flagship bows as one would. The rx 8 is was looking slick but gosh that sticker price for a new bow!

The shop owners son walked by to the ultra view display case and pulled out what I think was a hinge style release and walked it back to a fella who had (what I assumed was his bow) at the tuning target. I turned back away to look at the Lift in person, cool looking bow. What was happening behind me was nothing out of the ordinary. I heard them talking about draw length, maybe a something about how anchor points change, then I heard the shot break. It was LOUD like a woosh and a snap at the same time. My first thought was that it was far too loud for a regular shot even indoors. I turned around to see a derailed bow. The arrow that he had knocked was in the target. The archer was in shock. The tech was also looking bewildered but not angry. Immediately he began inspecting the bow. I still don’t know exactly who’s bow it was or who would technically be at fault. I’m not entirely sure how a UV hinge works but to those more experienced with these types of releases could something like this happened if the archer improperly pulled or twisted his hand or something?

This isn’t a dogpile on Mathew’s post, or an attack on the Lift which I’ve seen some people having issues with. Also I’m only assuming it was a Lift he was shooting, it had the limbs sandwiched together with rubber in the middle so lift or phase 4?

If this was a shop bow who would be obligated to take responsibility? If you’re getting a flagship set up for you 1on1 and use a release aid you’ve never used but you’re under supervision of a bow technician and something like this happens…is the archer really at fault? Did he have any business using a hinge on a bow that may not have been his?

As I was leaving I overheard the tech say well at least the cams don’t look broken. The archer still seemed to be in shock. I felt bad for him. Either way it’s an expensive accident/mistake that may have cost him his bow or put him potentially on the hook to pay for damages to a shop bow.
 
#7 ·
haha thanks! Didn’t realize it was my 100th post! I guess I didn’t know what to title it this post, you’re right I didn’t technically see it derail. Just the before and after. It wasn’t anything out of the ordinary when I watched him draw an anchor. A few others commenting that he must have been torquing the grip too much. I’m guessing a combination of grip torque and hinge in inexperienced hands can be a dangerous combination.
 
#6 ·
Wonder if the guy was looking for a new release and was trying out different ones and the arrow in the target was from a previous shot with a different release. Speculating that the guy was given the new release and he just forgot to nock an arrow. Distractions like this commonly result in that type of scenario (speaking from experience).
 
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#10 ·
AT needs a Derailed subforum so we can all go to one place, grab a cup of coffee, tea, brewski, cocktail of choice, whine and cheese plate, popcorn, etc, and enjoy the topic.

Accidents happen. Who knows what really occurred, right?

Even the archer would respond with "I didn't do anything, I just drew the bow back and released".
 
#12 ·
I took a new archer with a pocketful of cash into the local shop to get a new bow. He was excited and nervous. The owners son came to help and I made sure the young man knew he was dealing with a novice. I did not want to hoover so I browsed around and shortly I saw the shop owner come by with a derailed bow. He was visibly angry. My friend had done it and he was embarrassed. That ended badly as no one seemed to want to continue. Too bad for the shop. Too bad for my friend. I eventually found him a two year old bow that was brand new through an AT connection. We took it to a different shop to get it set up and tuned. That shop sold him around $400.00 in accessories and charged to install them. They also took the time to carefully walk him through the shot process and get him comfortable. All went smoothly this time. Good for them. My friend had no hunting in his background and now loves bowhunting. Good for everyone. Accidents are a cost of doing business for all businesses. How they prepare for and handle them matters greatly.
 
#17 ·
Correct me if I’m wrong but a derail is a catastrophic unseating of the string from the cam? I don’t recall seeing cables out of place. So yea, I think derail is the correct term. I don’t know if there is a separate term for strings and cables failing together or how that even happens. I feel like the only time I’ve seen that is in shorts or reels of somebody dryfiring.

And sorry for the lack of specific details. It all happened very quickly. It was almost certainly a hinge release from UV. Just wanted to share a story of something I’ve never been around.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Personally at this point I'd wait for the 2025 models to come out. I am not saying there is a problem with all Lift's but I have read enough to draw my own conclusion and I do not think people are making these things up. All companies can have issues and it seems it's just Mathew's turn this year. I bet we see some differences in the limbs and or cams next year.
 
#33 ·
In response to the Blind Archer....for some reason the quote function isn't working for your reply....



Can be said about any "tuning system" for any bow.

It you really think about it, all of today's modern systems are easy to tune. These systems are all pretty much doing the same thing just going about it in a different way.
 
#62 ·
In response to the Blind Archer....for some reason the quote function isn't working for your reply....



Can be said about any "tuning system" for any bow.

It you really think about it, all of today's modern systems are easy to tune. These systems are all pretty much doing the same thing just going about it in a different way.
[/QUOTE

Okay...no. Maybe your blind skills are better than mine, so I invite you to put on a blindfold and teach me how to keep Hoyt or older PSE shims straight; how to tell the difference between the Tophats; remove/reinstall the e-clips... All that vs. twisting a yoke or turning a wrench on DeadLock... I get it, it's all easy for you, but your approach to the world isn't the same as it is for some of us... I can tune Hoyts and Mathews and PSEs... BowTech old and new is definitely easier.
 
#37 ·
Plus you don't know the BOW tech. I have been shooting for longer than many people here have been alive and I went to a shop about 5 years ago and shot a New Breed archery bow because the spec's looked great. He set it up for me and I went to the line only to find out it was set to 100% letoff..............lol. Maladusting those cams would do that as I found out later.

The string went loose at full draw........Try holding a 70 pound bow with an arrow nocked at full draw and a loose string and arrow dangling around but still attached.........that'll add some excitement to yer' day.

I tried to "over draw" the bow and hold it or hopefully release the cams but somewhere in that 2 seconds of confusion the bow went off. I looked like that Dufaus that many people watching might think was a newbie and just screw the pooch but I was a victim of very poor setup.
 
#41 ·
I promised myself I was not going to post this since I posted in another thread about the guy cracking 3 limbs on his lift at the range the other day - I had to drop off new keys Saturday at the shop for the new lock and a guy I know that is more than proficient with a bow and long standing member of our club bought a new Lift 29.5 Saturday and it blew while they were paper tuning it. Looked like a decent hole just a smidge tail high.

First thing they checked was the nock and it was fine. They were doing a lot of speculating and not figuring anything out and I had to go.
 
#45 ·
It may be that in their quest for lighter weight they took a little too much weight/depth off the cam string grooves and set up an avenue for derail if the bow is not under perfect conditions or torqued one way or the other etc.

For all these stories of derails the fact remains there are dozens of other Lifts and owners who are having no problems whatsoever with their bows. I'm not discounting all these stories of derails and limbs shattering or cracking, it concerns me too, enough that I have stopped letting customers let down bows while we're setting them and rather just have them release the arrow into a bag.

I've shot the Lift a lot and really like it. If I could swing it I'd order one today. But I'd still be careful around it.
 
#52 ·
I could get onboard with this theory. The Mathews Lift has a more aggressive back wall, and previous models always held onto peak weight late in the draw making it feel humpy, and if you're not proper in the back wall it can be jumpier than other bows on the market.

So I can see someone mishandling the bow, it popping out of the valley, torquing the riser and all heck going wrong and they derail, especially when drawing a weight that's easy with their Bowtech SS but feels like 3# more on a Mathews, or similar situation.

I've noticed most people talking about derails have limited experience / just got the bow. I'm not hearing it from long time Mathews users and people that have shot one for many months.