It will still get big,just takes longer.

 

This is just for some that Need to have what they Think is the Faster Bow. Too many buy into that Need. What if there was only Recurves and Long Bows? And No Chronogtaphs then What! I Never Needed to Know how fast any of the Bows I have Owned the FPS. I prefer to have a Bow that I can Shoot and Shoot Well! And It was not what some call a "Flagship" none are Big Named Brands Either. Just a Niche Market Brand and few even like that Brand maybe because it is old Tech. Yet when that Brand first came along it was New Technology for It's Time!
I have stated this several times my bow is a "1997" Model Year Bow, I bought used in 2003 and Has Worked for my Archery needs since then Prior it was a 1994 I got new in 1995 on Clearance from Grander Mountain (just as they opened their Retail Stores) they and Cabalas where the few placs that Sold this Brand Back Then. Talk was that my Current Bow had 240 FPS that was a few years after I started Shooting this Model!
Oneida Lite Force Magnum. It still works as long as I do my Job and Make The Shot.
Never needed to know what the IBO or whatever today's measuring of how slow or fast a bow IS! Never Blow Up as the rumors suggest and do all my own work plus no Press Required. Easy to Tune / Adjust if needed!
LFM

 

What if there was only Recurves and Long Bows? And No Chronogtaphs then What!

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

 

Slow bows are no laughing matter! It has been far too long that we as consumers have been taken advantage of by false advertising and unreachable speeds on bows that cost as much as my first truck. We need reform! We need truth! And gosh-darnit, we need SPEEEEEEED!

 

The problem here is that IBO testing is not what most people think it is. I posted this elsewhere: IBO testing is 80lb (+/- 2 lbs), 400 gr arrow and whatever DL they want (there is no set DL for IBO specs). So, for the RVX 4 they can test that bow at 82lb, 400 gr arrow and 30.5" (and they can fudge that 30.5 because there is no DL standard, not even "max DL").

Only ATA testing has a DL specification.

The Truth in Bow Speed: ATA vs. IBO - Rokslide

ATA vs IBO: The Truth in Numbers By: Evan R Williams “My bow shoots faster than your bow!” The debate rages on. So why does one company uses ATA (Archery Trade Association) and another company uses IBO (International Bowhunting Organization) when rating bow speeds? What are the differences? Are...

www.rokslide.com

There is no false advertising going on, just a misunderstanding on the consumer's part of the testing standards being used.

 

Nonsense. I need as much energy as possible to break through the sagital crest consistently.

 

Nonsense. I need as much energy as possible to break through the sagital crest consistently.

OMG, I haven't even thought those words since High School....

 

The RVX 4 is a fantastic bow, and could never be considered slow, just slower than some.

But you are 100% correct with a hunting setup there is extremely little “practical difference” between any of the flagships. For instance my RVX is shooting a lightish (452gr) hunting arrow at 291 fps through a Garmin chrono. My Mach 30 is shooting the same arrow, same draw and poundage at 304fps. Is there a difference… of course. I am getting 85ft-lb of K.E out of that and 93ft-lb out of the Mach 30.

This is from both bows only being in the low 70lb draw, so very easily drawn by most people. If you have been into bowhunting for a few decades or longer you will realize how crazy the new standard of “slow” is. A “slow” 70lb can easily meet the legal requirements (or supposed legal requirement, never seen them actually enforced or checked) to hunt Cape buffalo. This used to be something people would struggle with or have to work to get to.

Of course that is K.E. only and I realize that if I added mass my Mo would change (and I would add mass as I dislike shooting broadhead more that 285-290fps at the most. So with either bow I can hunt Cape buffalo on down legally, and anything in the US.

Now as for which is better shooting, the RVX takes it all day, every day. The draw is easier, the bow is quieter, and the hold is something people just have to feel. Both bows shoot well, but it’s like shooting a classic pre-64 Winchester in a mild mannered .308 vs shooting one of the rarer Remington model 7’s in the SAUM’s they made for a few years. Both get the job done just fine, one is much pleasant to shoot, with more than enough guts to get anything you need done and easier to put into the exact right spot which is the most important things.

If you are counting on 5-7ft-lb of energy difference breaking bone or increasing penetration enough to make a difference then you are in trouble if the angle is a little different than you thought or the animal is covered in mud, or a hundred different little factors.

The hold on those Primes is just something else. I have too many bows in the stable right now, and the Mach 30 goes down to my fiancé’s draw length so I can keep one of those and get her new limbs. But if I would have drawn for out west the Prime would have been my long range bomb dropper and I would have been more than happy with the speed and energy it is producing.

 

If you are counting on 5-7ft-lb of energy difference breaking bone or increasing penetration enough to make a difference then you are in trouble if the angle is a little different than you thought or the animal is covered in mud, or a hundred different little factors.

I think this is a point that has been missed by far too many folks agonizing over their bow/arrows. We get caught up in the specs and numbers but loose sight of the context of those numbers. Guys sweat 30 grains, or another 2% foc, or let 4 fps steer them towards a bow that they actually don’t shoot as well for them (I’m guilty). It’s not that it doesn’t matter or make a difference, it’s just a very minimal or negligible difference.

My new bow shoots at least 10 fps slower than my last, but it’s really not noticeable to me. Yeah, there’s a tiny bit more drop, but I pay more attention to how much better this bow feels and aims for me.
I’m giving up a few ft-lb of KE, is there a real situation where THAT will be the deciding factor in the success of my hunt? I seriously doubt it. The new bow tunes better/easier (better broadhead flight), and holds, aims, and groups better. I know which one I’m talking to the elk woods.

 

speed is not as funny when you're a 27"DL shooter ...all bows are fast at 30+" DL
people say you do not need 80lbs DW to kill deer. to that I say you do not need to draw the bow back
to 30" to kill deer either, save your shoulders, only draw 27" ..haha

I like bow brands that rate their IBO ratings conservative ,I would rather be surprised by speed
than surprised by speed loss

 

40 pounds is all you need to dispatch a whitetail ,been watching a fellow lady doing it for decades. Shot placement and broad head sharpness are the key to success!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

When did we start worrying and debating about bow speed?

 

I'm guessing when the first Fast & Curious movie debuted.

 

Speed is an advantage, always has been

...as long as you can hit

With that being said, if all else was equal, I bet anyone would pick the higher speed bow over a slower one

 

Its disception though. If i owed you $345 & when i met up with you i gave you $334....what would you say? The way they advertise bows & rename them every yr is just so strange to me. Its the reflex the newer one has better reflex & you can feel it i swear! Man go sit down 🤣

 

Yep. Everyone thinks their Bill Nye these days.

 

Those of us that shot/hunted with stick bows from the 1960’s or 1970’s & the early 1980’s compounds know that NOTHING is Slow today…. Just fast, faster, claims to be fastest, and “I ain’t standing next to you when you shoot that thing!” fast. Quit twitching about arrow weight and FOC and go kill some game for your freezer.

 

Well, some people want / have to be seen shooting the most DW, the Fastest Bow...etc.

The most insecure have to always make light of that at all times, vs. the ones that are not caught up in the BS and go about their Business without the childish behaviors.

 

Well, some people want / have to be seen shooting the most DW, the Fastest Bow...etc.

The most insecure have to always make light of that at all times, vs. the ones that are not caught up in the BS and go about their Business without the childish behaviors.

Im pretty sure my Golden Eagle Hawk system is fast AF, but I will never go about my business without childish behavior.

 

IBO is overated

I remember when I got my Golden Eagle from 2002. No idea the ibo but slow compared to any modern bow. Slow bow took plenty of deer. Filled the freezer few times.

 

First, I'd like to say that I don't shoot much mast 50 yards and that's a long shot for me. As long as I know the distance I'm good, and even without my rangefinder, I do pretty well. I bought a new bow last year and I wanted a bow that was enjoyable to shoot, thus more time practicing, thus getting to be a better shot. I didn't even consider the ATA or IBO or whatever speeds. That never crossed my mind. Those numbers are rather inflated anyway as far as I'm concerned, I'm not about to shoot 5 grains per pound from a 70# or 80# bow with a 30" draw. (Or whatever those exact specs are.) I suppose the FPS number that they claim influences some, not me.

 

The first thing I ask when walking into a pro shop is "How slow will this bow go". The looks, I tell ya. 😐

 

The need for speed is all about those soda suckers, all speed does is HELP you MISS faster!

 

I'd rather miss fast than miss slow.

 

The last time I shot through a chrono was about a decade ago when a longtime hunting partner brought his chrono over to test his Prime bow against mine. His was an Ion set at 60/27, mine was an Impact set at 60/29. He was shooting CX Blue Streak lightweight arrows and I was shooting longer Easton Axis. My speeds were still faster, despite the heavier, longer arrows. So he wanted me to test shoot one of his CX, which I was leary about since his arrows were considerably shorter. I did a very cautious test draw and there was enough arrow on the rest to be safe, so I shot it a couple times. My speed increased a bit over 20fps .....and he was even more freaked out.

IBO is somewhat like my shooting my friends lightweight arrows to achieve "synthetic" speed that was never going to be utilized in my practice shooting or hunting. Those who chase it and modify their setup to have bragging rights can get close, but it is not a setup that tends to be practical. Plus speed bows are well known to have shooting characteristics that most do not enjoy shooting. My comfortable, accurate 'slower' bow still gets an arrow to the target at 50 yards in a heartbeat....so who really cares???

 

You’re completely missing the point. I don’t care if a bow is 325, just rate it for that. If I buy a truck, I expect it to perform to advertised specifications. Why is this different? This isn’t a Prime thing, it’s any manufacture that inflates the speeds drastically. I’ve shot the Mach 30 and Core SR through the chrono, and they are very close to their ratings. That’s the actual point. It’s not that a bow MUST be fast or whatever else everyone is ranting about. It should be at least close to what it’s rated for.

 

Actually not missing the point at all, I don't pay attention to IBO because we know all manufacturers are inflated BS. That's why I suggested throw that info in the garbage and shoot them through the chrono if it's important to you.
In other words don't say "that bow is slow" until you compare it to something, and that something is not the difference between actual speed and claimed / advertised IBO.

 

Misleading IBO speeds has been an issue for a long time. Manufactures know speed sells and often misrepresent their product as they know.....Speed Sells. All bows should be within 5-7 fps of advertised speed, anything more is blatant, false advertising.

I kind of disagree with TS, 10+ fps does make a difference, specifically, more KE. More KE can be the difference in pushing that large diameter broad head through a shoulder for a kill or wounding an animal. There is a noticeable difference between shooting 290 fps and 300 fps when shooting long distance as well.

If my bow, with my set up, should be shooting 300 fps per the advertised IBO and I am shooting 285 fps, I'm not happy and my bow is slow. Just my opinion but I want my bow to shoot close to what it is supposed to shoot and speed is important to me.

 

Misleading IBO speeds has been an issue for a long time. Manufactures know speed sells and often misrepresent their product as they know.....Speed Sells. All bows should be within 5-7 fps of advertised speed, anything more is blatant, false advertising.

I kind of disagree with TS, 10+ fps does make a difference, specifically, more KE. More KE can be the difference in pushing that large diameter broad head through a shoulder for a kill or wounding an animal. There is a noticeable difference between shooting 290 fps and 300 fps when shooting long distance as well.

If my bow, with my set up, should be shooting 300 fps per the advertised IBO and I am shooting 285 fps, I'm not happy and my bow is slow. Just my opinion but I want my bow to shoot close to what it is supposed to shoot and speed is important to me.

I agree that bows should shoot what the manufacturer says it should shoot but until we (consumers) start holding companies accountable it will never happen

In my post I showed the difference between 290fps and 304fps with a 450 gr arrow, about 7ft-lb. Is that a big enough increase that it will make a difference through bone? I don’t know. I don’t know what that magic number is but guessing it’s closer to 20ft-lb before you can continually see the penetration difference on game. As far as drop the difference between a 291 and 304 with a 452gr arrow is less an inch at 60yard.

Just all depends on what is important to you and your setup.

 

You guys are so lucky hunlee isn't around to witness this crazy talk.

Warp speed ahead........🏹

 

Like I always say speed doesn’t kill accuracy does. Yes I agreed a faster bow does help push the heavier arrow to hit harder. How did we ever kill anything before speed bows😜

 

Speed can have an effect on accuracy/impact point, though. Slower can cause it to hit further from the aiming point due to misjudged yardage and animal reaction time/movement.

 

Prime bows are slow, but they draw like butter.

 

Actually within 3-8 fps against everything we have tested.
Thats through a chrono too.

 

Do you feel better now?

Or

Show us where the advertising touched you.

 

I never thought much about speed until I started down the path of lower poundage because of bad shoulders. I went down to 50# bows and tried a faster 6" brace bow to make up for speed loss. It definitely worked great. Then I thought, I'm going to try a slow bow at 50# and see how that works. That worked just as good. So now I have a faster Elite Enkore and a slower Elite Synergy that I have total confidence in using. So I agree with the OP. In all honesty they are all fast IMO. None are slow. Some are just less fast.

 

slow/fast, I have a slow bow, a pignut hickory 64" flat limb. It pulls 58 pounds at my draw and prefers 45 pound cedar arrows. I have a fast bow, it is a pignut hickory 64" flat limb. It pulls 58 pounds at my draw. Out to 25 yards, it is the most forgiving and accurate bow i own, I can shoot it as fast as I can and still be small game accurate. I have killed numerous rabbits and a few pheasants with it. I wish it was five pounds lighter draw and faster.

 

I've never heard anyone wish their bow was 30fps slower.