I have watched that video, and I applaud Jake for taking up Barebow.

It'd be interesting to see how someone who trained with Clicker and sights for so long go without either things....

I will certainly be rooting for him!

 

It'd be interesting to see how someone who trained with Clicker and sights for so long go without either things....

Running tens of thousands of arrows under a clicker between 2003 and 2008 is what gave me the ability to shoot barebow well. What will be interesting to see is how quickly and what form of TP he develops without the clicker, because every barebow archer that takes competition seriously, will get it sooner or later and spend the rest of their barebow career learning to manage it.

 

Love his "barebow archers are more fun to be around" comment. Spot-on observation, and honestly one of the biggest reasons the discipline is growing in popularity.

Archery is supposed to be fun.

A lot of young JOAD archers over the years have been left wondering why it isn't, probably because all the adults around them seem so serious and stressed all the time. IMO that alone is as much a part of why we lose young archers as anything. Because nobody is out there telling them it's just a game and the whole point is to enjoy themselves.

Those five rings hypnotize people and kids take their cues from the adults around them.

Jake is going to kill it in barebow. He has a great attitude and is incredibly smart. He's also a fantastic spokesman for archery, and will be for barebow I am sure. Can't wait to see what he does next.

 

Limbwalker,

Good point! having to draw your bow the same way to the same point millions of time over the years does help with barebow shooting, no question about that. I just wondering how the lack of clicker going off is gonna affect Jake's ability to execute his shot.

Just want to ask your input on this, as a compound shooter, I have dealt with TP numerous times and just recently able to get it under control. I wanted to expend into OR and eventually Barebow. Do TP manifest itself the same way as it is on compound? What have you experienced so far, going from OR to Barebow?

 

That's a very interesting news. Good luck in the new adventure!

 

Boomer, I'll send you a PM or start a new thread. I don't want to derail this one any further.

 

I watch those Olympians.. they draw their arrow mm's from the clicker with the slightest expansion to the click...with Jake's training he will undoubtedly do well. Half the battle with barebow is getting the draw length consistent.

 

The reason I also brought that up was I mentioned to another member, I have been watching tons of barebow video on YouTube. The big events.
From what I can tell. 80% or more of the shooters show forms of target panic. If you watch closely you can see when they get to full anchor. The vast majority of them slowly creep up with there point on the target. When that point get to the spot, there brain says now! And that arrow is gone without a pause or watching the point float and executing the shot.
I been there. I know what going on with that sight picture.
The olny thing I can think of that could help this is by using the fletching contact on the nose as a “clicker” to send the shot. The archer gets to the desired sight picture and execute/pulls with more back tension and when the feather/vane touches there nose the shot is made. That’s if you can even legally do that in competition??

Also see many have the yips while at full draw. And the vast majority continues on with the shot and ends up with a poor hit. It would be much better for that archer to let down and re enter the shot process if time allowed. Maybe it’s all timed? I’m not knowledgeable enough to know the rules yet. If not and it is timed?
I can see why there is the anxiety and it increases that tremendously on the archer in that situation and is really feeding that TP demon even more.

I have dealt with these same demons and they are terrible. Wouldn’t wish them on no one. Those who never had it probaydi t even know it. Or they are in the 1-2% who by personality are fortunate to have a different mindset/makeup to control it.

 

The reason I also brought that up was I mentioned to another member, I have been watching tons of barebow video on YouTube. The big events.
From what I can tell. 80% or more of the shooters show forms of target panic. If you watch closely you can see when they get to full anchor. The vast majority of them slowly creep up with there point on the target.
I been there. I know what going on with that sight picture.

I can see why there is the anxiety and it increases that tremendously on the archer in that situation and is really feeding that TP demon even more.

I have dealt with these same demons and they are terrible. Wouldn’t wish them on no one. Those who never had it probaydi t even know it. Or they are in the 1-2% who by personality are fortunate to have a different mindset/makeup to control it.

All very true. It's easy to see even the top barebow archers creep and do what I call "lurch and launch" - something I also did myself.

When that point get to the spot, there brain says now! And that arrow is gone without a pause or watching the point float and executing the shot.

Funny you mention this, as Rick Stonebraker and I were talking about this very thing just last weekend. We both found ourselves using the aim to trigger the release, which is a sure way to reinforce target panic. And we both created a conscious pause in our sequence to try and avoid that from happening. It's not easy though. It takes work and the focus drills will drain you mentally. Best way I can describe it is to let that moment of adrenaline settle, then once you calm down and are in total control again, release. But it's much easier said than done.

The olny thing I can think of that could help this is by using the fletching contact on the nose as a “clicker” to send the shot. The archer gets to the desired sight picture and execute/pulls with more back tension and when the feather/vane touches there nose the shot is made. That’s if you can even legally do that in competition??

A lot of people think this helps them, but honestly it really doesn't. You can touch the fletching to your nose (or mouth or whatever) and still change your draw length by up to 2". I've demonstrated this many times to my students and at clinics. However if that extra point of reference helps someone feel more connected or aligned, then I see nothing wrong with it. But using it as a trigger to release is just not useful IMO and is potentially misleading.

 

As for "barebow shooters are more fun to be around", a truer statement was never made before. I don't shoot barebow and even I go over there where all trad and barebow folks are shooting. From the compound perspective, that's why I always shot in bowhunter class. The situation is similar where the BHFS folks are quite a bit funner than the unlimited guys and gals. Always frowning and cussing their rests and releases and such. Just kidding, just kidding!

As for shooting barebow myself, I'm completely unable to command-shoot at all. I instantly, literally in 3 or 4 shafts, get TP so crippling that I can't enjoy archery. So I have to use a surprise release, via either a release aid or a clicker to shoot anything with a string on it. Otherwise I'd love to do it.

As for archery being fun, limbwalker speaks the total truth. I recently decided to not return to competitive archery so it now no longer matters what equipment I shoot. I also haven't shot my new compound in nearly a month, but my ratty Inno always jumps in the truck with me instead to "go for a walk" after work.

I'd put a d-loop on it and shoot it with my Like Mike, except I want to try some of the concepts Chris talks about in his presentation on the linear draw. To see if I can physically get into those positions first before I actually bug a coach and not be just a waste of their time....

But the cold truth is I'm already having more fun now than I did shooting for score even in BHFS. I'm back to ok can we just execute a good release more than 3 times in a row; there's something kind of cleansing about that.

As for Jake Kaminski, I'm super glad he's back to shooting and I think it'll be awesome to see him in barebow class...

lee.

 

Great posts guys.
I agree. Traditional shooters are like that. And it’s much more fun shooting barebow/trad.

Limbwalker,
Your right about that. And trying to shoot and beat the panic through mental toughness without an aid will absolutely wear you OUT! I have had days where shooting 10-15 shots I was exhausted and done.
I will give that a try, your pause training.

 

Sometimes, you gotta just hold on the spot until you completely relax, then let down and not even shoot the arrow. And continue to do that until you train yourself (temporarily) out of being triggered by the sight picture. Sure is easy to say.

 

Temporarily is the perfect word. That’s what it is. A temporary fix.

And to the original poster. I apologize for destroying your thread, and taking it over.

 

Barebow recurve, at it's highest level, is a competition to see who has the most command over their target panic on that day. Plain and simple. There are 30-50 guys and gals that on any given day, when they are relaxed and in full control of their shot, can shoot world class barebow scores.

 

Your exactly right!

 

If you look it up I am pretty sure clickers are legal in world archery...but has to mount below the sight window...I looked it up several years ago before world's in Ireland.

 

11.4.BAREBOW DIVISION
For the Barebow Division the following items are permitted:
11.4.4.
No draw check device may be used.

 

I swear..... maybe it was just field

 

I couldn't find a good outlet of rules on short notice... I will take your word for it...I don't care to use one

 

World Archery barebow rules are found on their website, under Field Archery.

 

Should be listed under target section also now. Was formally adopted earlier this year. :teeth: (yay!)

 

Limbwalker,

Jake is following what you have always said. "If it wasn't for the Olympics, we all would be shooting barebow"
Since Jake has retired from the olympic race, but he still has a love for archery, barebow is the natural progression. I am looking forward to watch his journey.

Pete

Sent from my SM-J327V using Tapatalk

 

Yea, except that I'm back to shooting the Olympic bow, with no realistic shot at ever making another Olympic team. LOL

But I still stand by that statement, that the divergence in the 70's would have been... <---- Barebow....Compound----> had it not been for FITA standardizing what we have come to know as the "Olympic recurve"

 

Not to derail the thread any further but...

but we are not sure of a final outcome. We can only speculate

This is correct. We are just speculating. Simple opinions. Nothing more.

I think as barebow gets more and more competitive, it will become "less fun" at the highest level. When you are investing tens of thousands of dollars a year for travel, registration fees, and other expenses, coming home empty handed isn't fun for very long. But at the local level, barebow will always be more fun because (or until) those five rings aren't hypnotizing anyone and giving them an inflated sense of importance.

 

Limbwalker, barebow is more fun because you can shoot 3D also, not just the 5 or 10 rings. There a barebow shooter can meet the other stick-and-string shooters and "get together". I am wondering how a team of longbow, barebow and OR will look like instead longbow, barebow and Compound. For me that's the perfect team based on "evolution"

 

D.O. believe it or not but there are now 3D divisions for Olympic recurve. Crazy, but there are.

 

I think a lot of the problem with barebow in the 60s is the splintering of people wanting to use aiming systems vs instinctive shooters and thus creating a whole bunch silly different rule sets.

But now we have matured and have finally adopted a uniform set of rules for barebow, and that uniformity is allowing the class to explode. Jake sees it, and is jumping on board.

Sent from my SM-J327V using Tapatalk

 

In the UK, at NFAS (National Field Archery Society) competitions, target recurve (known as "Freestyle") has been a standard shooting style for a very long time. NFAS shoots are usually either 2D or 3D, or a combination of both.

I've shot 3D quite a lot with my target recurve and also with barebow (gap and stringwalking). Both are a huge amount of fun. Shooting my target rig around the Border Archery 3D course in Scotland is especially challenging. Sid Snr is an experienced bow hunter and delights in setting up challenging shots; I'm certain he puts a few pegs under low branches just for me