Following. I just bought a metcalf a few weeks ago because it was on sale and was one of the ones I was looking at. Haven’t had really experience with it other than just hiking around looking for sheds. But it does compress nice


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But it does compress nice

^^^^^^^
This. I have the Marshall, because I had previous experience with Dana's packs and when the Marshall showed up on a flash sale, it was a no-brainer. The extra cubic inches pack down. Lots of well thought out compression straps. You'll be carrying around a few extra ounces of Cordura, but then you have the option to expand when necessary or when plans change. Plans always change.

My only complaint is there are a series of nice upgrades to the Marshall for 2020. Thinking of listing my 2019 in the classifieds, and moving into the 2020. The MRs are clearly top shelf all around, and they've gotten all the details right. Like paying for top end glass, it will be a purchase you won't regret.

 

FWIW, I have been Running a custom McHale at about 4000cu inch for about 18 years as a day pack and backpack. The only time its not enough is when you try to bring and animal AND your camp out in one load....and then a guy would need a 7,200 or more. I don't think its worth it having all that extra bag and only using it rarely. Heavy stuff is always going to want to shift in such a big bag. Now, FWIW, I don't typically do long 14 day backpacking trips...my avg is 5-7 days. A guy doing those marathon trips is a different matter.

Dan McHale who has forgotten more about packs than many....says if you can't fit it in about 4,000cuin, then you either aren't packing right....or its too heavy to be packing around [meat].

The cordura on that pack is finally failing badly....so I have been looking hard at packs the last couple of years. I just pulled the trigger on the one that most impressed me, 3rd gen Exo 4800....its the best tall option pack I've seen for hunting.

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Reading this, what I get out of it is that you don't think the beartooth would be too large with the lid removed. That's definitely how I would be using it most all of the time, I am certain I don't need the full 5200 inches unless it is December maybe. 4300 is fairly close to 4000...

I’ve done several 5-7 day back pack hunts out of a MR Pintler, so in my opinion, your looking at to big of a pack. The more room you have, the more stuff you bring

You have to be the exception... 7 days out of a 2500ci pack is the extreme end of extreme. Are you using the load shelf for additional space? Is your tent/sleep system on the outside? Do you eat? Do you bring a possibles/10 essentials kit at all?

I could see cutting down to 34-3800ci pack like the Selway 60, but any smaller than that I don't see how you can carry everything you need for that many days.


Thanks to everyone that has replied so far!

 

I agree a lot with what beendare said: it has also been my experience that large packs and heavy objects just don't cinch down well enough to get the load balanced and centered. I switched to an eberlestock f52 "warhammer" 3 years ago and have been very pleased. Now, the pack is just under 2,000ci. Too small for elk, but plenty for muleys and whitetail but with the molle pouches, lids and expandable features, I find it very versatile.

 

I’ve done several 5-7 day back pack hunts out of a MR Pintler, so in my opinion, your looking at to big of a pack. The more room you have, the more stuff you bring

 

Yeah absolutely, everyone is different. I guess I was more saying since you have used about that size pack for a bunch of years and have recently purchased another one you like it. My current pack is probably ~5000, and it is too much most of the time, especially since it doesn't compress well at all when it isn't totally full.

That's why I was thinking a low 4's pack would work, but was concerned about the shorter trips.

My current pack also doesn't have ability to utilize the load shelf between the bag and the frame, you have to pull the whole bag off to use the load shelf, so then it just acts like a freighter frame. Pretty annoying.

 

Yeh that load shelf is a game changer...adding volume. I thought about going with the EXO 3400cuin instead of the 4800.....but for a couple ounces- meh. Its showing up today actually....almost exactly 2 weeks from order.

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If you can get by with coyote color, Black Ovis has the 2019 Selway, on the newest Guide Light MT frame, for 325.00. They did away with coyote color for 2020. I just got one, it is nice and comfortable. There are no pockets inside, except for water bladder. I just ordered a Kifaru sherman pocket to use for pockets and organization, and rifle carry. It also serves as a grabit on the back of the pack. With the lid pocket, the two lower side pockets, belt pockets, and the Sherman, I think it will have all the organization I will need, plus I wont have to open the bag to get to my small stuff. The Selway is 3700 cu in. I signed up for Black Ovis 10% off order, and got the pack, and 2 mystery ranch belt pockets for $328.50. The Sherman was $91.00 shipped, and I can use it on my Mystery Ranch Scapegoat 35 day pack also.

 

that's a smoking deal!! that's pretty dang tempting for me... cannot beat that price.... even used

 

I also really like the tri-zip on the Selway. Can use it like a top loader, or just the center zipper like a duffle. Open them both, and the bag is wide open.

 

If you cinch the bottom bag straps down tight, the bag gets a lot smaller. Really no need for a separate Pintler or Mule bag for a true day pack.

 

I was just thinking to reduce the amount of extra material mostly. And I like the tri zip system on the selway and pintler, but I hate not having the internal organization. I could do a bunch of small organization bags from kifaru or kuiu maybe. Or I have some packing cubes I use for normal travel in my suitcase that could work.

That's definitely a great deal on that selway.

 

One last thing. You dont even need to cinch the bottom tight. Left the full heigth of the frame, you only have to compress the bag 3 inches horizontaly, to get down to the 2500 cu. in. of the pintler.

 

Okay, so I have now moved on to the next thing on my shopping list and am hung up on what new pad I want. Of course I would love an Xtherm, but really don't want to drop 215 on a pad... so what else are you guys using?

Top contenders right how are the Big Agnes AXL insulated, Q Core SLX, and Klymit Insulated V Ultralite SL. All can be had for ~100 or less right now with some sales that are happening.

 

REI usually has a one item big discount sale coming up soon I think..or in the spring sometime.

Thermarest and Expeds you can't go wrong with...the ones you mentioned are MUCH lower quality....many problems with the BA pads QC.

BTW, this EXO pack is perfect.

 

You think they are really that much better? My sister and bro in law both have thermarests (xtherm and xlite) and love them but I think they both managed to get them at the garage sale for pennies on the dollar.

I don't have any experience with BA, but I have a few friends with them that really love them, and I've slept on a klymit static v and found it comfortable (other than being cold, it was December and it was the uninsulated version. Bad plan)

I'll look into the Expeds and watch for sales. I think you're right about the spring REI sale, I know next week they are doing an extra 20 off clearance stuff so it might just be the next sale after that.

 

The 2020 version of the BA AXL Air insulated uses primaloft gold rather than silver, when I called them yesterday they confirmed that was in order to make to make it warmer than it was previously (since that was heavily criticized) without increasing weight. Do you think an R-value of 3 would be enough for late September up high? My previous pads I have always just accepted being cold as part of the game, but the research I've been doing proves that isn't the case hahaha.

I will try to lay on an Exped to compare, my biggest problem with the Thermarests is how loud they are. Might as well sleep on a potato chip bag. The 3 I listed are very quiet material which I like. I also am thinking about the Nemo Tensor ultralight insulated, it is also right there in the 15oz range with an r-value of 3.5.

 

Gooldy,
The beauty of these sites is there is a boatload of info. Many guys get tired of answering the same question -like yours-over and over.

The SEARCH FEATURE IS YOUR FRIEND. if you search the older threads on Pads both here and places like Rockslide....you will see that BA has a high failure rate.

 

What makes you think I haven't searched? I haven't checked on rokslide but I did on here, and most of the threads I saw were just you saying you had one pop, and now you appear to be on a mission to not recommend them anyone asks.

That's why I typically try to only look at camping/backpacking gear reviews on those test websites like the big outside, outdoorgearlab, etc. Cause things change year to year (quality, durability, warmth) and those websites see those changes since they test everything. Like the Nemo Kyan bag, it is a synthetic bag but you would need to jump up to 800FP or higher down to get the compression and weight of it. Just a few years ago most people would say "synthetic that small and light? Unpossible"

So, have you used any of the new Klymit or Big Agnes stuff? I'm interested to know if their quality or durability has gotten better. Because the Xlite is on backcountry for 100 right now...

 

80L is a monster pack. How often do you do 5+ day trips? I personally would vote for a single pack that's light enough that you can use as a day pack and as a 3-5 bag (likely 3500-5000 cu/in range depending on your gear). Last thing you want to do is carry in two packs if you spike camp.

You can always get a bigger pack to put on the same frame if you're going for a long trip, or you can just put your extra food + gear in a dry bag inbetween pack/frame on the small bag. Again, all depends on how often you do those super long trips. Mystery Ranch makes a great bag, but they are generally pretty heavy... I generally would rather be 2-3 lbs lighter 100% of the time than more comfortable <5% of the time.

Re: sleeping pads, R values are subjective and are not industry standardized (i.e. manufacturers can just claim what they want, unlike sleeping bag EN ratings). In my experience, the nemo/kylmit/big agnes stuff comes in a bit under its rating. The thermarest might be crinkly, but they're astoundingly warm (just use earplugs, which help you sleep far better in the backcountry anyway). That warmth allows you to shift down from the bottom to top of your sleeping bag (if you have lateral baffles), which makes your bag a lot warmer too. Win win. That said, sleeping pads are somewhat like boots, it's a personal thing.

 

Do you realize the 85L of the beartooth if you include the lid is 5187 ci, right? 4300 (no lid) is 70 liters, right in the middle of the range you posted. So yes haha, we agree that seems like a good size.

I agree about the thermarest though, I tested my brother in law's xlite this weekend and it was extremely comfortable. And the crinkly-ness is way less severe when it is inflated than when I've played with them flat in the store. Between that and a set of earplugs (good idea) that would work great.

Oh and just a heads up, they actually just adopted an industey standardized r value rating system in 2020. Lots of pads went down, but the thermarests all went up, significantly in some cases.

Thanks for the help!

 

Yeah good tip on the pad ratings, the R value Makes a difference in my experience

 

Check out Kifaru. Great Colorado company with quality packs and are perfect for elk hunting.

 

I agree. The packs final designs are approved by some serious killers who put them thru the ultimate test. Which is packing meat off the mountain

 

My pack bag is 7200 ci fully loaded, and compresses down to nothing for dayhunt mode. I've never heard anyone say they wish their pack was smaller when packing an elk out, but I've heard plenty say they wish their pack was bigger

 

Realize this post is sort of old but wondering if the OP got the beartooth or not? I was in the same boat last year and bought the BT. I will be purchasing the Metcalf soon. After running a full season in the BT it's too big for 3-5 days for me. Lots if extra space/weight for no reason. It does compress down nicely but ounces equal pounds and I find no reason to have that space/weight for no reason. Great packs but my only gripe is that MR WILL NOT honor a modular system. It sucks and I understand it but in order to buy what I need I have to buy something I dont (another frame). May end up switching brands because of this.

For pads, I run the klymit. Love it because its light and minimalist. But over the years I have found that the thin profile is hard on the shoulders of a side sleeper. Its surprisingly comfortable for being so thin though.

 

I haven't yet, I was going to order it this month actually.... this was my main concern. Were you using it without the lid? My plan was no lid basically full time, because then it should be about the same size as the metcalf with the lid on it, at least according to the numbers.

My current pack is an old crappy cabela's one that is just a big sack with drawstring closure on top. I hate that if I need to get something out I basically end up having to completely dump out my pack to get it out, because without fail it has ended up getting down towards the bottom and I cant find it... hence why I was thinking the beartooth over the metcalf. Seems like it has a lot more internal organization options with the 270 zipper and pockets. But maybe the full length side zip is enough?

I completely 100% agree on the modular piece too. That is a super lame policy, and really doesn't make any sense at all when they advertise their packs and frames as interchangeable. I really want to get it right with the big bag so I can buy the pintler or mule bag for my day pack.

 

Gooldy,
I run it with the lid at all times because it allows me to place easy to get to items in an easy to get to place. Also, it aids in strapping my bow on the pack and helps the overall securement if I kill and need to pack meat/horns.

I have found that these packs that are designed for bivy type hunting are not going to be very "compartment friendly" if that makes sense. Everything you need goes in your pack and it gets cinched down and snugged up as tight as possible. Whatever bag you decide on, i think you will find that it's not gonna be much different as your old pack in the organization and ease of access to certain things.

I found that it comes down to how you pack. I have everything compartmentalized in several small ditty bags and the least likely to get used all day goes towards the bottom and the most likely used daily goes in the lid. With that strategy I rarely find myself needing to access the main bag daily for essentials. It's a PITA to uncompress all the straps every time you want to get to something. However if you do, usually everything is coming undone and getting re-cinced. Not a big deal for some but I dont care for that. But I think a full length side zip is sufficient if you like access.

 

I've been hiking/camping and backpacking my whole life so I am familiar with how various packs are designed and how to pack in them. I've had packs with organization built in and packs without, and for me I greatly prefer having some places to put stuff. I'm just getting into the backpack hunting thing though so I'm not super familiar with all the options out there for that. But it seems like there's got to be other people like me that enjoy having some usable organization.

As an example, I like to be able to remove my sleeping bag without disrupting everything else in the bag. Having a bottom zip or separate compartment for that is convenient in my eyes. That's why I was drawn to the beartooth, is the internal organization and the zipper style. But maybe the metcalf, being a little smaller, would work better and I should just leave the lid on it? I dunno. Maybe a selway and add a lid? Too many choices.

I wish packs weren't so expensive so you could buy a few and really put them through their paces to try them out.

 

One more thing to note. It all depends on you for the size. How do you pack? Are you a minimalist? Do you get cold and need extra clothes? Are you larger guy who needs to bring more calories than others? Do you bring tent or bivy sac?

I consider myself an average guy who's fairly minimalistic. For a 3 day I bring what I need and nothing I dont. I tend to over pack food but I'm ok with that. I run the clothes that are on my back, sometimes a puffy, no rain gear unless it's in the forecast, gloves, beanie and one extra pair of socks. 🤗🤗🤗. Obviously all the other stuf you need in the backcountry but you get the drift. For me, the beartooth is bigger than I need for 3 days. Is it too big? Not at all. But bigger nonetheless. Hope that helps to make your decisions harder haha

 

Yep, the more you want the heavier it gets. Its a give and take. Either the Metcalf or BT will give you what you're looking for. I will have both soon haha. Yes its rediculous what the prices of these "hunting" specific companies cost. It's an artificial market and its apparent that most of the costs (especially on packs) is an arbitrary amount to meet a profit margin set forth. Some of the pack manufacturers are getting outrageous. They just keep going up. I had a buddy spend about $1000 on a system a few back. Won't mention the brand but it deff wasn't worth $1000. He fell for the elitist business model and in the end wanted $1000 on a pack system. I feel MR is high end quality at affordable price points.

 

It is pretty silly honestly. I know the build structure is different when a pack needs to have 100-200 pounds of max capacity, but at the same time my brother in law's Osprey Exos 58 (61L actual) pack is like 2.5 pounds and you can buy one at REI for 220 regular price. And it is super comfortable. Obviously the weight capacity isn't even close to as high, but it is still an interesting data point for sure.

Also to answer your question from earlier, I do my best to stick to ultralight gear but I don't skimp on essentials. I always have my possibles kit, at least a light weight rain jacket, socks for every other day, underwear for every other or every 2 days... clean clothes are a must to me, after a few years of wildland fire for the USFS there is nothing more important to me than clean socks. Not having the other essentials to me is just flirting with danger. Like it is basically guaranteed you're gonna get wet sooner or later if you don't have raingear in my experience. So I probably pack more than some people do.

I have an Exo K2 5500...

My friend just got a K3 4800. It seems like a very nice pack, but I am not willing to spend $650 on a pack that doesn't seem to be much if any different than the other options out there.

 

I have an Exo K2 5500, I sometimes pack in and plan to stay a solid 5 to 7 days with the potential of staying longer, so it was a good fit for me and they did not have the 4800 at the time... my wife has an Exo k2 3500 (she is a petite small framed woman and there’s no way she needs to pack more, but it’s nice because it’s not too big for her either)… And my other hunting partner has an Exo K3 4800 ( however he had a little issue with the lid last season, it was a minor design flaw, which he addressed with them after season and they promptly took care of and I believe has since changed. Also I believe they actually just sent him a new pack recently in the mail without any request on his part, just to resolve a small design flaw. Of course it’s a bummer when they don’t nail it in the first shot, however it says a lot that they are willing to send out new packs to anybody who is affected even without their request just to make sure everybody is taken care of and done right by them.)

The 4800 is a good compromise between the two. However to be honest all three packs compress down to the same size when empty. I use my 5500 as a day pack when I go for a stroll in the woods and it’s comfy. I have no issues with it like that. I certainly probably would’ve thought about the 4800 if it was available when I bought my pack, but I have no regrets with having a 5500, and no desire to buy a different pack. I love it! It may be a little excessive for a day pack obviously, but it’s not annoying or comfortable uncomfortable as such. So if you’re thinking you may want the extra room it’s not really an issue to stretch and get a larger back as far as Exo. Not trying to scare anyone away from picking another brand, however I know sometimes with other brands it can be excessive with a larger pack.

They also have a little tiny pack that you can use for your bladder and slide in and clip in your back frame, that you can also pull out and use as a mini day pack. It will also fit a few snacks, some TP, and a kill kit if desired. That where they good Bino harness can get you a long way. But then you have to hike back to grab your pack frame still. So I usually just keep my pack with me as a day Pack since again I don’t find it uncomfortable or a nuisance.

Again not trying to tell anybody to not purchase another brand pack, just speaking from personal experience of what I know.

5500 next to 3500. And the straps on the pack are pretty good natural design for packing sheds.

 

"clean clothes are a must to me, after a few years of wildland fire for the USFS there is nothing more important to me than clean socks."

Hahaa you mean to tell me that being the dirtiest, nastiest, smelliest, harriest, crustiest person on the line wasn't important to you😂😂. I thought it made you more of a man to disregard your hygiene while you faught fire. No disrespect to our wildland guys. I respect everything you do!!!

 

"clean clothes are a must to me, after a few years of wildland fire for the USFS there is nothing more important to me than clean socks."

Hahaa you mean to tell me that being the dirtiest, nastiest, smelliest, harriest, crustiest person on the line wasn't important to you&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;. I thought it made you more of a man to disregard your hygiene while you faught fire. No disrespect to our wildland guys. I respect everything you do!!!

Oh, being dirty, smelly and crusty comes with the territory haha. But I will be dirty and crusty in my nice clean socks lol.

Longest I went was like 11 days with no shower I think. At a certain point you don't really notice anymore haha. I haven't done it in awhile but it was a great summer job during college. But it definitely taught me some stuff about sleeping and working in the woods.

I missed this you ratting on me for trying to give you good advice...

Like my buddy tells me, no good deed goes unpunished.

You were telling me to search the forum, which obviously I have done. Anyone familiar with how forums work should know to always search before starting a new thread, because there is hardly ever anything new to talk about that hasn't already been covered.

I was just wondering if you had any experience with the new BA stuff to know if it is any better quality wise, because I have a few friends that have their equipment and really like it. The online reviews seem to hold it in fairly high regard. But that is just one test group, so I was trying to get more info.

Sorry I was abrasive.

 

A friend of mine just literally purchased the exo earlier today with 2 hip pouches. To his door he paid $735....eeeek that's a damn tough pill to swallow for a pack. But he's the same guy who spent $1000 on his last pack and was never happy with it so....I guess $735 doesnt sound bad to him. Haha

 

Got the Beartooth today. I love the additional organization, gonna need to play with it outside and pack some weight. The new style bag attachment to the MT frame is far superior to the old guide lite on my pintler, and the new shoulder and hip straps seem to have more padding.

I got it in subalpine, and it looks awesome.

 

👍