[Hank]

Here is my take on Point of Aim vs Gap.

Point of Aim is simply using the tip of the arrow as a reference point in relation to the target -- at the target. For example, when using the Point of Aim method, many target archers will place something on the ground in front of the target on which to hold the arrow tip. Point of Aim is many times measured in feet.

Gap is using the tip of the arrow in relation to the target but, back at the bow, like a sight is. For example, many barebow shooters if they taped a match stick to their risers to hit a target at 20 yards, the Gap between the arrow tip and the match stick, might be around 2 inches.

At 30 yards the Gap might be 1.5 inches, 40 yards 1 inch, etc.

Now using and seeing the angle of the arrow in relation to the target at different distances is called shooting off a sight picture. I believe this method is the one many use and confuse it with Instinctive shooting.

Instinctive shooting is learning/developing a feel to point the hand where you want the arrow to go. The Point of Aim, Gap, or Sight Picture has nothing to do with this type of shooting.

All 4 methods of aiming and shooting are good and just take work to master. Everyone naturally gravitates through experience and perception, what works best for them.

Hank

 

[DwayneR]

Hello Hank,

Hank>>Here is my take on Point of Aim vs Gap.

I disagree. POA is not many times measured in "feet"... POA / GAP are basically the exact same thing. You are using a certain distance between the tip of your arrow and your intended hit. You can call it "Gap" or Call it POA... BLACK/BLUE face shooters will adjust their arrows to "close the GAP" to where their POA is on the Bullseye, or some other predetermined place on the target (or close to it). Hunters will also do the same.


Hank >>Instinctive shooting is learning/developing a feel to point the hand where you want the arrow to go. The Point of Aim, Gap, or Sight Picture has nothing to do with this type of shooting.<<

I am the type of person that believes the very first shot you shoot is instinctive... from there on...You use whatever means fits your nitch. That is using the POA / GAP and your ability to judge distances with the selected arrow you are using.

A good example can be shown by taking someone who shoots these 1916 arrows and give them a 630 grain arrow. They cannot use their "POA / GAP" method anymore...There first shot will HAVE to be instinctive...Guessing on weight, speed, and distance. From the second shot on, they are using POA / GAP to "adjust" the path of the arrow to find its target.

Hank, Here is a thought that people may be thinking about....Where you are "Concentrating" or "Focusing" at.

You can do 1 of 2 things.... Focus on your arrow being at a certain spot, or Focus on your spot and let the POA / GAP done Subconsciencely or peripherially. (hopefully I spelled that right.).

Dwayne

 

[Arcus]

I once had the difference explained to me this way (I think it's similar to what Hank is saying):

Say you're shooting 20 yds. To use POA, you pick a spot somewhere below the target, perhaps even on the ground, and put your arrow point on that spot. Your focus is on this spot and your arrow point, with the blurred target in your periphery. To use the gap method, the target is in focus and the arrow point is in your blurred periphery, pointing somewhere below the target in this example. Therefore, the major diffence between the two methods is what you are focusing on.

 

[J. Wesbrock]

Hank & Arcus nailed it dead on. It's really just that simple. No need to complicate the heck out of it. :thumbs_up

 

[Ia Hawkeye]

Poa

Dwayne,
Hank's right. there is a difference. POA was used way back (1900 -50's ? )when people shot FITA (lawn , Target archery.), before sights.They would place an object in front of their target at a measured distance. The tip of the arrow was placed on that object . This was done at all shooting distances.

How many Gap shooters have you seen walk down to the target and place an aiming object in front of their target to use as an aiming point ? Matter of fact I would imagine that it's illegal nowdays to even cross the shooting line.
It is in Field archery, 3-d,Paa rounds, etc.

So there ARE differences in POA and Gap shooting. There are also many similarities.

 

[DwayneR]

Hello IA,

IA>>Hank's right. there is a difference. POA was used way back (1900 -50's ? )when people shot FITA (lawn , Target archery.), before sights.They would place an object in front of their target at a measured distance. The tip of the arrow was placed on that object . This was done at all shooting distances.<<

How many Gap shooters have you seen walk down to the target and place an aiming object in front of their target to use as an aiming point ? Matter of fact I would imagine that it's illegal nowdays to even cross the shooting line.
It is in Field archery, 3-d,Paa rounds, etc.

So there ARE differences in POA and Gap shooting. There are also many similarities.<<

Either way you are using a Gap situation... Either way you are using a "Point of Reference" And that point of reference is used to "Gap" to your target. Thus...IMO they are basically the same.....You either conscience when you are doing the Gap (like the POA) or you are Perpherially doing it (doing the Gap). Either way.. there is a Gap... By the way, I was smiling when you mentioned placing a ball or something out there... I remember folks doing that <g>.


I also agree with you on how they used to place a object out there too!...When you shoot split fingers, sometimes the Gap is too great. to judge accurately... Other methods must be used. Your example of placing a ball out there is a excellent one.... That insures subconsciencely the gap they are looking for (for those who focus on the target)... and it insures a POA for those who focus on the POA.

For the indoor shoots, The barebowers found that the gap/POA was way too much...So they switch to 3 fingers under to "narrow" the GAP, and/or bring the POA up closer to the Bullseye. Sometimes they would add weight or more feathers to bring the GAP or POA closer to the Bullseye. Sometimes a longer arrow too. Sometimes they would add whiskers to slow down the bow. Sometimes they would increase the Brace height. Sometimes they would change their anchor point.

This is why IMO only your first shot is truely instinctive... all other shots you are using a certain amount of Gap to adjust the arrow flight. Whether you focus on the Tip of the arrow being on a spot (which is a certian Gap distance away from your Bullseye), or focus on the Target and seeing the gap between the arrowtip and the Bulleseye in the peripherial vision.

This is why I say POA and Gap are the same... Both, you are "GAPPING"...Both accomplish the same exact thing.. One you focus on the POA and when you release your arrow, you subconscience says the arrow will hit where it is supposed to. The other, Your peripherial vision "SEES" where the arrow tip is, and adjust the gap to where the Arrow tip is about right. When you release your arrow, the arrow goes to where you are focusing.

For me, I have tried both ways... I do better focusing on the Target and using my peripherial to Gap the distance beteen the point and intended target.

If I shoot outside, the 50 meter target and more, I must do the peripherial focus on something above my target. (Like maybe the 1 ring). The POA is on the 1 ring, and I must focus on the top of the one ring. From there, I "trust" my arrow will land X number of feet below to hit the target.

I am definitely not saying Hank is wrong.... In actuallity I agree with him with his examples. I only disagreed with him on POA measured in feet most of the time. (or many times). Take Black/Blue face indoor 20 yard shooters...Most all have extremely small GAPS, or their POA is very little GAPPED. Everyone that I shot with had less than a few inches of Gap, or none at all. The national Champion (Ron and his wife Maggy?) both had zero Gap. 2nd placer had to aim on the 4 ring.

I was only saying that in either instance, you are *still* measuring a "GAP" while shooting... whether you are measuring this Gap Consciencely <sp> or Subconsciencely.... It boils down to (IMO) the exact same thing...measuring the gap between the arrow tip and your intended bullseye. Some folks will "Look down" the arrow, or "See the Travel" of the arrow... which is great. But they are still using a form of GAP between the arrow and the Target.

Dwayne

 

[Ia Hawkeye]

As I said....

Dwayne,
As I said, there are differences and similarities. Technically, I'm right, generally speaking , I agree with you, POA and gapping are both forms of using the tip of the arrow for aiming purposes.

I have been shooting Field , PAA (indoor), fita rounds, 3-D, etc. (plus my main love bowhunting) for Over 40 years. I've always shot barebow and split fingered with a corner of the mouth anchor. Never used POA or gappig (consciously), 3 under, walked the string, etc. Guess I'm trying to say that I too have alot of experience and would also like to think I too, know pretty much what I'm talking about.

Guess my opinion is as valid as yours ! So you don't need to act like a know it all and talk down to the rest of us . I'm sure that wasn't your intent, but it's sure is starting to sound that way.

Peace and good shooting !

 

[DwayneR]

Hello IA,

Good to hear from you again...

IA>>I have been shooting Field , PAA (indoor), fita rounds, 3-D, etc. (plus my main love bowhunting) for Over 40 years. I've always shot barebow and split fingered with a corner of the mouth anchor.<<

I too <g> (Great minds think alike). I usually use split fingers on my Mamba to 30 yards. 3 under for 24 yards or less. Its good to see others use both forms... I don't see this very often.

IA>>Guess I'm trying to say that I too have alot of experience and would also like to think I too, know pretty much what I'm talking about.<<

I never questioned your experience... I apologize if it came out that way. Maybe I am too blunt of a writer...

IA>>Guess my opinion is as valid as yours ! <<

Indeed it is...very much so.

IA >>So you don't need to act like a know it all and talk down to the rest of us .<<

This IA, I am going to ignore, because I know you are being very kind about it by your follow up sentence. I am sorry, but was this really necessary? We agree or disagree... What is important is to understand why we disagree or agree. Just because we disagree, doesn't mean the other is talking down the rest of the group. Just because we disagree, doesn't mean the other is wrong. I totally respect yours and others opinions, ideas, and skills. I like learning and seeing what others come up with. I will sometimes present my ideas also. I look at it in a more simplistic arena... I don't like to complicate things beyond what overlooks the eye. People can turn aiming into a 100 different ways...But I look at the basics. Sometimes the basics get covered up with the 100 different ways... sometimes they don't.

IA>> I'm sure that wasn't your intent, but it's sure is starting to sound that way.<<

No, it was not my intent. I read the message as maybe some folks did not understand why I said what I did. So I tried my best to explain *why* IMO (In My Opinion) ALONE, (not stated as the only way, the only fact, or anything like that), that I felt what it boiled down too when it comes to aiming. Maybe like the Glass is half empty, instead of half full...

IA>>Peace and good shooting !<<

You to my friend... someday hopefully we will meet and enjoy a fun round of shooting...

Dwayne