I've only owned two sets of limbs SF Axiom plus and Hoyt Integra. Without doubt the Integra draw smoother, are faster, quiet, and less vibration. The finish on the Integra limbs is better and the fit tighter. Neither had alignment problems or twist. Now the important question - Do I shoot any better with the Integra limbs costing 2X as much as the Axiom? I'll reference Vipers thread on the "Placebo Effect".

 

For $140 I’m hard pressed to find fault with my Nika C1s. Smooth, incredibly quiet and the torsional stability of a crowbar.

 

This would take a lot of research. I have over 70 limbs in my test database. The problem is that most are aging now. There are sooooo many new products on the market.

I would like to test more of the lower cost limbs. I think that is an interesting end of the market. It is great to find products that punch above their weight class.

 

I would be very interested in your “lower cost limbs” analysis.

 

I own 2 sets of limbs 40lb tradtech Blackman 2.0 glass/wood longs and 45lb Uukha gobi longs both work well but not even close in performance. The Uukha s are easier to draw smoother and way quicker

 

Hah, I thought that crowbar line was mine but it's true of the Nika N3's too. I don't think you can get a better limb for USD280 than the N3's, taking into account speed, torsional stability, durability, production quality, quiet and dead in hand. No recorded history of limb failure as yet, supposedly a few fps faster than the SX50's according to John from JC Archery who sells both. C1's are also really great, show me a better limb for USD140, even quieter than the N3's. In the USD300-400 bracket, probably the Sanlida X10s. Kaminski got one of his best 70m scores with these 'budget' limbs. I sure like mine, though only as a pure target limb.

Any case, too personal to answer without a bucket of bias. I say yay, someone else says neigh.

 

Have you tried N3 Pro?

 

Archery is a very personal sport. There are so many variables and that's why so many people like it....it fits everyone. When it comes to traditional archery, I need to physically put my hands on and shoot the bow, before buying it. Thus, the reason why I drove to 3 Rivers Archery and spent several hours on their range and shooting everything that I could put my hands on and made my choice from there.

On my Hoyt Satori 19" riser, I have shot Samick R3 carbon foam core recurve medium limbs, DAS bamboo core short recurve limbs and Uukha Gobi medium and short limbs....all in 45#. The Uukha Gobi limbs are by far, my favorite!!! 💯 The smooth draw cycle, quick arrow speed and good accuracy has held my attention and will continue to do so. This setup makes for a 60" bow.

On my OMP Sektor 17" riser, I have shot Samick R3 carbon foam core medium limbs 45# (For Sale $180), DAS bamboo core recurve short limbs 35# (For Sale $130), DAS Bamboo core long longbow limbs 35# and DAS Bamboo core extra long longbow limbs 45#. The extra long longbow limbs at 45# are my favorite on this riser. This makes for a 64" bow, which is smooth in the draw cycle, very quiet upon release and has good accuracy.

 

What Gobi limb length do you like best?

 

I shoot both WNS Motive C5’s and Uukha Ex1Evo2’s (which have been replaced by the SX50’s). The Uukha’s are stiffer faster shooting limbs with a higher carbon content than the WNS, which are foam/carbon. Since I shoot a Win & Win riser, the WNS fit on the riser better. I like them both for different reasons. It is really necessary for you to try different limbs to see what fits the geometry of your riser and feels best for you when shooting.

 

The Samick Discovery wood glass limbs are extremely smooth drawing and have good speed plus can bought for a little over 100.00 from Alternative Archery. Next I would say TradTech 2.0 Black Max wood glass. Those seem a little stiffer drawing but shoot great. Their glass carbon is a bit stiffer, they seem more stable and add anywhere from 4-6’ per second faster than their glass wood. Vibration is minimal with these limbs.
The Samick Discovery carbon foam limbs are smooth drawing but I found at lower draw lengths does not perform very well. Montanamarine gets great speeds with these limbs with his 31”+ draw length. With my 27” draw not so much.
The Uukha Gobi limbs are a great performer but have a different draw than others I have mentioned. The Gobi limbs load up more at the start of the draw but at full draw feel a bit spongy. I had to move from a 500 spine to a 400 with 40# long limbs for a good tune with 250grn up front. I sold them but thinking about getting another set in 45#. I would say with the Gobi long limbs you may be able to jump up 5# in draw weight. The Gobi limbs are light weight, quiet, and no vibration on my 19” Satori.

 

Do you have any insight on converting the long wood discovery limbs (rated on 17" riser) to a 25" olympic recurve? Trying to build a 30lb 70" Gillo G2k and wasn't sure if these limbs needed an extra adjustment/conversion factor beyond the 1lb to 1" guideline . Thank you in advance.

 

It's easy to get sucked into the "more money means better limbs" BS, so the best thing is to find a shoot, like ETAR, where you can try several...or even a bunch. The best I ever had personally, when I had an ILF setup, was Samick Universal. They shot as good as any and were very affordable too. If your like many of us, and don't have a tub full of money to throw at the sport, it is really important to shoot some first. Opinions are just opinions, and the quickest way to getting something you don't want.

 

Remote - it was such a good description I guess it stuck in my head.😁

 

Used is always going to be your best buy if you can wait until something in the desired specs comes up. And I haven’t seen/don’t believe you pick up any speed by adding carbon to a limb that still has fiberglass over the carbon. There are lots of limbs at altservices for less than $100 that will all perform generally the same. There are a few others just under and just over $100 from Samick and Kinetic that are made in Korea.

Eliminating the fiberglass will lower the mass quite a bit(which improves overall balance of the bow) and pick up a few FPS, but then you’re looking at going over $200 from Alt. Kinetic has a few and WNS has the C5.

Uukha Gobis had been under $300 for quite some time, but the exchange rate has shifted in the last week or so and they’re now $306. These will be faster and smoother than any other limb you can buy besides Morrison or Border, being an even bigger jump in my experience than eliminating the fiberglass on conventional geometry limbs.

I still have never seen where John said that Nikas are faster than Uukha Gobis/SX50’s even after asking about it on another forum and being directed to the thread where this supposedly came from, but I’m sure they’re a good limb considering the fact that they’re a direct Chinese rip-off of the old Uukha “curve” profile limbs which I’ve shot a few sets of and thought were great limbs. The EX1 Evo2’s were also faster than any conventional limb I’ve tried and pretty much the same speed as Gobis/SX50’s in my testing. SX50’s are also the same speed as SX100’s in my limited experience.

I don’t personally see a reason to ever spend more than ~$300 on a set of limbs, so can’t comment on the more expensive ones.

 

Uukha dropped the ball on the Evo2, a beloved limb. They shouldn't have done that. There's a whole market of folk that don't want to shoot the big curves. I'm glad that Nika came along, picked up the ball and made an even better limb than the Evo. The Evo2 had 25% carbon, N3's 55%, so nope, book doesn't equal cover.

Uukha are great, spent a lot of time with their limbs when in Paris for much of last year, but IMO with the production quality challenges, all the reports of breakages etc, they should just get them made at the facility where Nika make theirs, which I believe is in the country of Taiwan (where a lot of the tech we all use is made). So many of the Uukhas at the range in France had clear coat chipping off, wonky carbon cloth lay. Some at the high end of their offerings looked fine however, like a couple sets of the SX+. SX50's/Gobis have reasonably low accounts of total limb failure, which is good. It seems like the Gobis, also pretty robust, are the SX50's that don't make higher $ QC, so have the wider 2.5lb+/- tolerance and occasional cosmetic issues.

Any case, hopefully soon another player in the carbon monolith market steps forward, to add even more competition to this new 'no lamination' limb construction strategy. I'd be an early adopter. Look at the carbon/foam market, how diverse it is now. The less monopolies, the better.

 

Nobody shoots expensive limbs?

 

The Uukha Gobi limbs are the most I've ever paid, at $499, but they are worth every penny that I paid. 💯

I was talked out of the Uukha Uureg and Altai limbs, due to their 100% carbon construction, they're having limb breakage issues. 2 different dealerships mentioned limbs breaking where the string touches the limb curve. They're covered by warranty for full replacement, but who wants a limb to break when you're at a competition or on a hunt? 🚫

 

Updating your product line after at least 3 years on the market and continuing innovation with a new product that combines the best of your prior two product lines and also facilitates streamlined production in a time of pandemic with rampant supply chain issues hardly seems like dropping the ball to me, but yes; the Curve profile and X-Curve profile limbs were both great limbs on their own merits. It would be nice to still be able to get them. Although I’d hardly call the S-Curve profile “big curves.” Also, you do realize there was an XX model in the old line that was “100% high-modulus carbon” and the same profile as the EX1’s, as well as another model with more than 25% but less than 100%, right?

Is it verifiable that Nikas are made in Taiwan rather than mainland China? Seems unlikely and I’ve never heard/seen that before, but it is possible and would be interesting. I’d also be interested to see any real quantitative comparisons between Nikas and any Uukha limb that can be set up to be the same draw weight with the same limb bolt settings. As I’ve said before, Uukhas with high advertised carbon content don’t actually shoot any faster for me, nor do they weigh any less in physical mass, nor am I convinced that Nikas would weigh less or shoot faster until I see a real comparison with real numbers.

 

I'd like to see tests on a shooting machine too. Well overdue.

At the day's end, limbs are personal. I wanted to like the Gobi's, but didn't. Many do, which is awesome. I'm happy with the speed of the N3's I'm seeing on my trusty Chrony F1. 204fps average at 9.7GPP, shot off the shelf and with 40gn of puffs on the string. For USD280 shipped, I'm laughing.

 

Been -

I think you know we both know better .
"Better" can't be defined by most people, because they don't shoot well enough to tell the difference. To make matters worse, the second personal preference, specific needs or even bias enters into the equation, all bets are off.

I remember a few years back , a well known bowyer (who's name escapes me) said that the only quantifiable feature of a limb (or bow) required a chronograph and maybe a shooting machine, to determine.

Smoothness, noise and "forgiveness" are relative and variable depending on the shooter. For example: a bow that stacks horribly at 29" may be smooth as sile for a guy with a 27" draw. Likewise a bow may be dead silent to a gay who knows how to tune a rig and has a decent release and sound like a car door slamming shut to a guy who can't do either.

And I do shoot "expensive" limbs, that were all bought used at around 1/2 the price of retail. When I was competing, I felt there was a difference, especially at the longer distances. Speed wise they would be about 10 fps faster than entry level or intermediate limbs. At bow hunting distances, that's irrelevant; at 70 meters, yeah, it can be a factor, since these days I only draw about 28.5".

And btw - what you're paying for with high end limbs is stability, specifically torsional stability, which means resistance to MINOR user induced torque. That's a factor for good shooter at extended ranges, but is usually over ridden by anything more than a minor form flub.

And for practical purposes, the only way of testing one limb against another, would be to shoot the two extensively FOR SCORE, and see if one CONSISTENTLY out performs the other. I'd be will to bet for most, like 99% of shooters out there, the difference wouldn't be statistically significant.

Now, with all that, I certainly have my favorites, and some (mentioned above) you couldn't give me, but that should have little effect on anyone else's choices.

Viper1 out.

 

Hard to believe it took 19 post to bring out 'better' is in the mind of the beholder. And of course it was Viper to bring it up.

That said, testing one limb against another for most of us is not practical. It would be if we all shot with sights. I'm guessing most of us don't. Sooooo, since archery is a sport of habits, most likely the limbs we're used to would win. And that brings us to the chrony and expensive. I don't disagree with Viper's unnammed bowyer. It's quantifiable. If you have a fast bow you can make it slow to suit your aim/habits. Pretty tough to make a slow bow fast. Shooting a lighter arrow is not good for limb longevity.

BUT I don't have a machine!!!!

Back when carbon was first put in limbs I found about an 8 FPS advantage over glass. In the ballpark of Vipers findings. BUT I will say I had some tuning issues that nullified the results. The carbon bow was a Balistik and the glass was a, I think, Widow. The Blalstik was tuned and the Widow would not tune with the same arrow. Probably tilting the results in favor of the Balistik.

So today if we're at the chrony, there is no conventional, glass limbed bow that can hold water with a SR. My tests show that in order for a SR to shoot the same speed as a conventional bow, it would shoot 15 grains per pound against 10 gpp for the conventional bow. And that was with Border Hex 7.5's. Which is an old out of production limb now. The test was done with a old Widow, the black and white one. Poundage on the Widow was 40 and the Borders was 39.

Poundage wise, I was shooting a 50 longbow when I got the Hex 7.5's. That's a drop of 11 pounds, but I gained 6 foot/pounds of KE. To me that's Impressive. So the moose I killed with 39 pounds was less impressive than the moose I killed with he 50 pound longbow. Apples to apples.

There's a lot of guys that don't like the SR because of the lack of a 'wall' at the end of the draw. BUT if you gave that guy a 52 inch bow to shoot he'd say it stacks. Why? Archery is a spot of habits. Give that guy and SR to shoot for 30 days and the give him his last bow and he'd say it stacks.

Bowmania

 

Hard to believe it took 19 post to bring out 'better' is in the mind of the beholder. And of course it was Viper to bring it up.

Don't mean to cramp your crush but a couple of us did say the same!

Of course limbs are personal, but there are objectively limbs that perform better than others. A totally worthy topic Beenadare brings up. There are high performance limbs I don't like the feel of, but I can still talk about how good their performance is.

Torsional stability is also huge plus in my book, I see it in my groups.

 

Sid from Border (RIP) used to post in the forums and he stated absolutely that his Super Curve design just didn’t work without modern carbon layups for more torsional stability.

This would be the case with other conventional limb mnfrs, they could get more TS with less weight.

I like hearing from you guys that both coach and shoot well….but lets be honest, you guys aren’t shooting $60 Axiom limbs….yes, its always the shooter but there are small incremental improvements with the more expensive limbs.

I suppose its this I’m getting at which more expensive limbs do you like that have a small benefit- and Bowmania explained his logic of same arrow speed at less poundage well. I tried to like the Borders…but no…...I might have to revisit those.

I bought a used set of the uukha VX I shot for years…and probably would have paid the big bucks for the new version SX if I knew they were bulletproof.

Currently my favorite limb is the Uukha Selengha which were just under $500 at Alt…but its a negative that I feel I have to run my hand over them after each round feeling for cracks.

And yes, I am chasing performance both through equipment and form improvements…..I doubt I’m a unicorn in that respect- grin

 

Been -

I like your take on things, so I'm going to be frank with you.
1. You'll rarely see any serious Olympic shooter using any of Sid's equipment, and except for the amateur ranks, rarely see any SRs. I said rarely, not none.
2. In my experience, a shooter has to be shooting fairly well (at distance) to reap any advantage from "better" limbs. At that point, you're looking over $400 for a performance advantage and in the $700 range (retail) for torsional stability, and again, the "advantage" is a matter of a few points at the highest levels, not at close range "hunting" type shots, where form is the first thing compromised (I think there's a rule to that effect, in "modern trad".)

Oh yeah, just anecdotally, My wife is a casual shooter, and usually out shoots most of the guys; she's using Axiom Plus limbs out to 60 yards.

Reality, except for speed (with a chronograph) and feel (subjective) any limb that doesn't change in physical properties during a session (or match) is capable of shooting a perfect score. Want proof? The first indoor (20 yard) perfect score was shot in the late 1960's, with a bow that would be considered obsolete by most shooters today. (And, for the record, I own one of those bows, and it really is crap ).

Viper1 out.

 

Oh yeah, just anecdotally, My wife is a casual shooter, and usually out shoots most of the guys; she's using Axiom Plus limbs out to 60 yards.

Its good to see you having fun with my backhanded slap to Axiom limbs….that sure backfired on me- grin Thats fantastic btw
My wife won’t shoot no matter how hard I try…but I can tell you it would not work out well for me if she found out I’m shooting $500 limbs to her $60…..

I am a bit of a hypocrite as I am guilty of trying to buy performance. My performance is a bit different from a straight target guy as all of my focus is to be a better hunter And unmarked 3 D shooter.

I have shot with some top target guys that didn’t like the big hook limbs…but there is no denying their increased performance can help a hunter as in Bowmanias example.

I’m just blabbering along here looking for some secret sauce…don’t mind me.

 

This is exactly why I picked the hoyt xakt shorts. I have a 25" riser hoyt which was just as expensive as the limbs. That's the most I was willing to pay knowing the new tech becomes the old tech at about 1/2 the expense in 3 yrs. I'm happy to shoot something mid level. I do the same with golf equip. The only thing I can't cheap out on was the putter-scotty was the only putter I trust. Hence, I shelled out the cash once and have never change it for the past 14 yrs. I probably never will in the future. my driver I change out every 4-5 yrs. This is my first ilf bow so I wanted to spend some decent money but not cripple my wallet in the process. 900 on the bow plus 300 in extras. Yeah, cheap-well sort of. It's a matter or perspective.

 

I think everyone buys performance, but it’s knowing when to stop that’s hard. I want the best performing gear within my budget, there is no way of knowing unless I try it. It would sure be great if there were more shops carrying traditional gear. When I talk to compound shops they will tell you that people will come in to check out their inventory then get online to find the cheapest so they quit stocking much.

 

Nika C2 limbs have great performance at a real bargain price, they look and feel like much higher priced limbs to me

 

Hell yeah. And extremely quiet. My floating average with the C2's is 202fps at 9.3GPP. 51.5lb setup, 19" riser and a 480gn arrow (GT Hunter 400 spine, GT nock, 50gn insert and 150gn on the end). Split finger off the shelf, with 44gn of silencers on the string. A bit behind the N3's, but very respectable. With elevated rest and nothing on the string I'd be into the high 190's at 10GPP. They go for USD140 or something.

 

Been -

Again, I like the way you think. I try to get people to understand exactly what they "need" in their situation, solve that equation and then add-on the "what they want" part.

Viper1 out.

 

I set up bows with a purpose in mind. I buy what I need to accomplish the goal I have set. This is a practical example of what Viper is taking about, except that with the wide variety of shots I have had to take means that I could not do everything optimally, with just one bow. A better archer could likely make one bow work, but I am building the bows for me, and not the better archer. It is my points that count.

When I was shooting FITA barebow I needed limbs that would give me good sight points out to 90 meters. The best were Border HEX5 and HEX6.

I shot my best scores with the HEX5 using my shelf to aim, rather than the HEX6 where I used the arrow tip, since I could get the tip on the target.

No other limbs that I tried at the time would give me a good sight point. Options for super light arrows were limited to the McKinney II at the time.

In this case, I bought performance by buying limbs that could make the distances I needed to shoot without stacking shelf to point.

My WA field bow was setup to optimize stringwalking for 5 to 50 meters, and it does that very well. I can comfortably shoot it to 58 yards and stretch it to 65 (one shelf to point) but it falls short as an NFAA field bow. It is 74 inches and uses 27 pound Border HEX6 limbs drawn 32 inches. It works very well and the extra long 72 inch string helps reduce imbalance from string crawls. The light weight shortens stringcrawls.

Now I am setting up a bow for an American 900 round. I cannot make 60 yards consistently with my field bow. I am several sets of limbs I am considering, all conventional recurves. I would like to get so that my shelf is near the top of the target at 60 yards since I am most comfortable aiming with the shelf. I would also like to use my 27 inch field bow riser rather than my 25 inch target bow riser. I have three options: 30 pound extra long Border XP10 Evolution, 34 pound PSE ProElite, or 36 pounds Border CXB.

In each case, I am setting up bows with a specific purpose in mind, and in doing that, putting additional points on the scoreboard. I have shot my field bow in a 600 version of an American 900 round and it was too difficult to shoot the longer distances with the short point-on. On the other hand, my FITA target bow is deadly at 70 meters, as distance that I cannot begin to shoot with my field bow.

Notice that I have not mentioned indoor archery. That is because I quit shooting indoor years ago. Many folks, including me, have played with light bows and heavy arrows to optimize bows for indoor distances. My personal best was shot with 26 pound limbs and 532 grain arrows that were almost 36 inches long. The bow shot a whopping 132 fps but I could put my point on the center of the target. I shot considerably higher scores than with my regular setup I was using at that time where I would have to either stringwalk or aim below the target.

 

rox -

Typically marked wt on a 17" riser in Hoyt/TT land is the same on a 21" "target" riser. If that's the case with the Discovery limbs, then subtract 4# when going to a 25" riser.

Unfortunately, I have no first hand experience with the Discovery limbs.

Options:
1. If you already own the limbs, you can call LAS as see if they will try them out and see what they get. Sometimes they do that. (Helps if you bought stuff there.)
2. If you don't own the limbs, why are you bothering with them?
There s/b plenty of target type ILF limbs on the new and used market in the same price range.

Viper1 out.

 

rox -

Typically marked wt on a 17" riser in Hoyt/TT land is the same on a 21" "target" riser. If that's the case with the Discovery limbs, then subtract 4# when going to a 25" riser.

Unfortunately, I have no first hand experience with the Discovery limbs.

Options:
1. If you already own the limbs, you can call LAS as see if they will try them out and see what they get. Sometimes they do that. (Helps if you bought stuff there.)
2. If you don't own the limbs, why are you bothering with them?
There s/b plenty of target type ILF limbs on the new and used market in the same price range.

Viper1 out.

Thank you for the feedback. Just looking for something with a smooth draw that had good speed. Thought that might be a good choice. Sounds like I need to look some more.

 

Nothing is smoother than a SR, nothing is faster than a SR, and nothing is more expensive.

Bowmania

 

Really want to like the SR's, but personally just can't take that spongy feeling at full draw, even with my long DL. I need it tight and clear. Also the preload, so early in the cycle. I know I'd never be as accurate/consistent with an SR as a good conventional limb, their crisp snappy release. Shame because everything else about them appeals. Esp those Borders.

 

The thread is from 2023!!!

Bowmania

 

The thread is from 2023!!!

Bowmania

Still a great thread to review 👍