brian -

The Gull was one of Wing's sleepers. Remarkable shooting bow. With a 12 strand dacron string about 7.5" should be right. Hard to tell as wood bows will always vary. Depends on the arrows your using, your draw length and style. Some of the old WIngs did like tall brace heights, but don't recall the Gull being one of them.

Viper1 out.

 

Because of the served end loops you will find more noise from the endless string.
Also as you twist your string to proper brace height the loops will want to turn on you and that "turned" serving can hit your limbs and make noise as well.
The flemish with its braided loops lie softer in the nocks and make for a more adjustable quieter bow!
Shoot your bow at the lowest brace height that gives you silence and good arrow flight!

 

t -

Because of the served end loops you will find more noise from the endless string.
Also as you twist your string to proper brace height the loops will want to turn on you and that "turned" serving can hit your limbs and make noise as well.

If that's your experience, I can't argue with it, but I've never found that to be the case. Also, why would a flemish string be more adjustable than an endless loop string???

IMHO, the ONLY reason to use a flemish string is because someone likes the looks. The Gull originally came with an endless loop string, as did all production bows from that era.

edit - The one thing that might have a effect, is that a flemish string will stretch more on shock and that might make a difference, however, if it does, that will also rob performace. (Didn't want ot leave anything out )

Viper1 out.

 

Viper, good morn to you!

Really you have never noticed the noise increase! From a sharp twack to a dull thud.
All my recurves now wear flemish strings just cause of the silence factor, the serving turning thing is a major cause with the endless strings, the flemish just lay so much better in the loops as well.
The flemish's adjustability lies in the fact that it can be twisted alot and not turn, to have the servings hit the limbs unevenly. Thats one of the reasons some put pads on their limbs to quiet the slapping sound

Most mass produced bows then and now come with endless strings as they are capable of being mass produced on modern equipment, not sure of the flemish.

I just know that the flemish is also capable of being tied all by hand, therefore allowing customization to the effect of installing extra material in the loops, for more strength in a lighter string, while still having the thinness you desire in your main string body.
Don't be so quick to judge the old ways, these have been fine tuned over the course of history to provide the optimum in performance and longevity.

Lets not even go to the Chinese, endless rawhide strings, those are artwork in themselves!
Those are my findings in the world of traditional strings anyway.

 

t -

I'm going to have to disagree with ya on this one!

1. Never noticed the noise increase? Nope, again, it's a factor or tuning and yes, even with the same material and number or strands, a flemish string may require a different brace height / nocking point / etc than an endless loop due to its charactoristics on shock.

2. Slpices laying better in the grooves. Not really, not the the EL string was made correctly, and even if there's a twist under the serving, it's really nothing to worry about. Unless there's a really bad recurve "curve" design and there are a few of those, the "slapping" sound is more often do to the tuning, meaning the string isn't centered when the arrow disengages, and the arrow nock "plucks" the string like on a guitar.

3. I've seen a lot of guys pad the loops.ends. Actaully never found that necessary except in the case of a poor limb design or less than optimnal tuning.

4. I'm sure that a flemish string can be mass produced as easily as an EL string, but have no hard data on that one.

5. An EL string is made on a string jig that can be adusted or customized to any lenght you like, and with greater percision than a FS string make by hand. That's another advantage of the EL string. Both, BTW take about the same amount of time to make, so that's a wash.

6. Extra strands in the loops is incredibly unnecessary with most materials. The braking strength far surpasses the need.

7. Flemish string can be twisted more than endless loop strings. Absolutely NOT! The limiting factor in the number or twists a string can take is the strand to strand abrasion, which will happen when a certain number of twists are applied and increases thereafter, regardless of the type of string. Basically, if the string kinks when unstrung, there are too many twists. Also, the more twists the greater the stretch on shock, that may be a good or bad thing depending on the integrity of the bow.

8. For me the string is a toaster. It has to perform a given task consistently, not interested in a work or art. YMMV on that one .

9. There a very good reason why you'll never never see a flemish string on an Olympic bow, actually 8 (see above :darkbeer: )

There's no right or wrong here, this is something we do for our own reasons. Just good to have the facts when making a call.

Personally, I just really don't like the looks of flemish splice strings on my bows, and while that may be illogical, that's my main reason .

Viper1 out.

 

Viper,
Well I guess there's two sides to every story, you listed some good facts as have I.
On this subject I seem to find that we agree to disagree. :wink:
It is clear we have different preferences in string styles, not saying your endless
is the perfect answer for a string anymore than my choice of the Flemish is the be all end all choice.
I believe there is room in this sport for each to have favorites and reasons for it being so.
Still I don't like how noisy the endless strings are and how they twist in the loops. :mg: :wink: :cocktail:

 

tpoof -

Without a doubt, fully agree :darkbeer: and I don't like how a flemish string makes a percision instrument look like a rustic candidate for firewood LOL :mg:

Just kidding!

Viper1 out.

 

In the case of this bow, the endless and the flemish have a dramatically diferent noise levels with all other things being equal- to the extent that I thought I must be doing something wrong. The endless made the bow sound like a musical instrument when it was shot. I'm wondering if maybe the flemish dampened the vibrations because it is so much thicker and "yarnlike" (like a built in silencer?).

On that note-Do you think a string silencer would help make a big difference in the noise on the endless?

The Flemish is servicable and I could put it back on, but its bright red and a little overpowering for the bow. The eternal debate- aesthetics vs performance.

Brian

 

cc -

A little over powering? If you mean color wise, can't help ya, if you too thick, then that in itself may be what's quieting the bow down. All wood bow are different, so it hard to say what the deal is, but I know that Gull is a shooter. If you can let us have some more detail, weight, your draw length, arrow type and length, head weight, number of strand on each, brace heights you're playing with etc, something might turn up.

Regarding silencers, unless you're trying to make a fashion statement, they are a last resort, IMHO, only to be used when you can't tune out the noise.

Viper1 out.

 

Gull brace height

According to the old Archers Digest I have, which lists factory specs for many of the older recurves, Wing suggests the Gull be braced between 8 and 9 inches. That Gull is a keeper .

 

I found a big part of the problem. I went to the local shop and they noticed that I was using the arrows from my 30lb Pearson with the 40lb Gull, and were a little light. I picked up some new ones and it is much quieter. Silly newbie mistake. I focused on one thing (the string), when the problem was the arrow weight.

Thanks for the help, bear with me.
Brian