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What's up, brother?

Yeah, it was crazy amount of resources for what they got. I also hate half-stories from both sides.

If they could've nabbed them for multiple infractions, they would have. At the same time, I'm not admitting to breaking a law that I didn't break.
I don’t doubt there’s guilt there. If you can’t bait, you CANT and if you’re do, you pay the price.

But finding salt and mineral licks in their house that are the same as found in the woods is not evidence. We all buy the same compounds.

The Untagged deer [emoji1662] is an issue. There’s a couple issues here warranting arrest and fine/prosecution perhaps. But making it a Mueller Russian Collusion investigation tells me some state officials need pink slips.


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Well now I’m assessing this here as such,,,,, 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

Yes LE is wrong on their overzealous use of tax payer money. That money could have been used to battle life threatening and animal threatening California brush fires.


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Huh? I didn't see a single comment "justifying" illegal activity? I'm extremely appreciative and empathetic to wildlife officers because they are almost universally under-funded and under-staffed. In this instance, myself and others are questioning the use of things like FREAKIN AIRPLANES to investigate one case. If you can bust someone baiting or poaching simply and directly, please do so. If you need to bring in Jason Bourne and SEAL Team 6 to catch this apparently expert rogue duo, there are probably hundreds of others out there worth busting with less effort and taxpayer money.
This isn't unusual if you spend any time in the west, and it's not actually expensive. It's fairly commonplace to see small turboprops flying around catching speeders. Those aren't expensive craft and they easily pay for themselves with the ticket revenue they bring in. They likely had a couple on standby or borrowed then from a local department.

Source: I work with LE depts in the west.
 
I wonder if the original intent was to bust a big social media case that would get the attention of masses of people, so that the hundreds of others that you mentioned might reconsider their illegal activities in one fell swoop rather than LE having to bust hundreds of lawbreakers individually.
Agreed, that’s where my brain was at also.

My thoughts after reading some other comments: I realize baiting doesn’t bring big bucks. You still have to spend time out there and find them. I suspect that said men both have some great trophy deer skills (spent a lot of time scouting, hunting, and patterning). As most know, trophy bucks are hard to find and time correctly. Trophy Blacktail deer? Even harder IMO. From the sounds of the county (Amador?) it’s western Sierras which is mainly blacktail with some small amount of hybridization. Sounds like the baiting (that likely took place) is possibly to narrow in on said animals patterns more/add additional insurance to harvest said animals. And/or maybe to help others harvest animals such as the tone of one of the gentlemen’s response here on the forum sounded (likes to take friends and family out hunting etc.).

This is obviously my personal subjective perception of the situation. But I have heard of this type of deer hunting behavior in California from Warden acquaintances at cdfw. Great hunters whom occasionally bait here in CA. I feel as though if the men weren’t meant to be used as an example to scare others, there was definitely some personal vendetta stuff going on. A warden I knew busted a guy whom had poached an estimated 20 deer a year for a couple years and I never saw anything on the news or an article about it lol.


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I’m against law breaking. But I’m for defunding LE to do escapades like this over deer baiting.

Say what you want but that money could be used for many many more important items to protect lives.


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I’m against law breaking. But I’m for defunding LE to do escapades like this over deer baiting.

Say what you want but that money could be used for many many more important items to protect lives.


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The focus of Fish & Game folks is to save lives? Here I thought it was to protect wildlife...what was I thinking? :unsure:
 
The focus of Fish & Game folks is to save lives? Here I thought it was to protect wildlife...what was I thinking? :unsure:
Tax payer money vicariously abused by LE in this case Fish and Game ?

I’d fire every jerk off pushing the envelope on this caper. Bust the creeps for baiting and poaching and be done with it.

It was a gross misuse of 100% tax payer money. It’s abusive !!!


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I took a break away from posting on Social media and forums and I’d like to explain as the following has been discussed/released with false misleading information. Many already know about this and many do not. I’ll state facts to keep things real, honest and TRUTHFUL. As most of you know I love the outdoors and sharing it with people especially the next generation including my own daughter. Over those years, I’ve had the pleasure of taking several friends family and kids out hunting and fishing resulting in many successful trips and adventures. Over that time some locals became jealous and elected to spread rumors. Jealousy truly is an ugly disease. Last year a local resident made up lies to wardens that I had trespassed on his property with zero evidence. This subject is not liked by many in the county and is known for lying to stir the pot for attention and has no credibility. That didn’t matter to the warden as he took his lies as an opportunity to investigate me and joe, which I knew of as it was happening. Also joe and I didn’t hunt together last year but fish and game lumped us together in their machination.

The allegations led to a multiple month investigation where there was suspicion I was also guiding without a license along with other suspected violations. As many of you know I share and enjoy taking people and kids hunting for the experience and not any gain other then friendships and memories. This resulted into a search warrant of my residence being executed three months later. You’d think they’d show some respect and professional courtesy to me on how they handled it but they did not. They took property, gear and several mounts (20+) that I’d harvested during my lifetime as far back as 20+ years ago that far exceeded the statue of limitations. Fast forward eight months, a lot spent on attorney fees and time to prove what I did and didn’t do. The state Attorney General took this case with numerous charges thrown at me backed by fabricated written lies with no evidence or facts and the state squashed the case as it should have been minus one minor violation of a technicality to deal with that wasn’t even part of the original false accusations against me. There are still a few good people in this state’s office thankfully, even here in California. A few of the many allegations they tried to charge me with was not legally taking several deer because they said I didn’t legally tag the animal, because in my photos I don’t show or have the tag visible on the racks, which to them was that I didn’t tag them right away. They tried this without even being there to view or know I tag all my animals right away then temporarily cover, hide, or remove the ugly tag for (natural) photos then secure it right back on the animal or immediately take pictures then tag it. Another one was not listing my exact kill location with an exact address or location as they said locations I listed which were within 1-2 miles of a known landmark or road (per regs requirements) was not close enough; however, their own regulations shows as a good example, 10 miles from lake berryessa is sufficient. These and many more were thrown out obviously. The Attorney General was actually very upset that they would spend so much time, money (yours), and resources to investigate me when it was started over a lie from a non credible source. The AG gave me the one minor violation to fight or except a plea to. Considering my family and the additional steep legal cost, I elected to take the one violation to learn from my minor unintentional mistake and move forward. Regarding the initial allegations there was never any evidence that I was ever on or near that guys property as it was all proved to be a %100 lie on his part. I challenged the search warrant/property confiscation and ultimately got my hunting gear back including my bows, arrows, binoculars, gear, daughters gear and mounts they took, even after a warden attempted to disobey/ignore the Attorney Generals official property release order by trying to keep several items he was not legally authorized to keep.

Regarding the violation, in August before season opened I placed a camera with attractants in front of it. Two months later in October, I returned to this location to check the camera and I was legally armed with a rifle. This location I won’t go to unarmed as I’ve encountered predators (coyotes, bears, lions) and illegals growing marijuana the year prior. I hiked in, checked the camera, and immediately left. I never had any intention of hunting as I was in and out. The AG stated since this was observed during the season and I was armed it could be looked at as if I was hunting a baited area even if it was two months later. This was the violation he offered me to fight or take and as mentioned before I elected to take it and learn from my mistake even though I never had intentions of hunting as I was armed for protection. Regarding losing my privileges for three years that is false information as per the law the maximum period for a minor violation is one year, which this is in the process of being corrected. This is the TRUTH! Many of you have hunted with me and know I’m a hard working experienced hunter who enjoys the outdoors for the right reasons. I’m not a poacher and I hunt and harvest game with persistence, knowledge and time in the field. I’ll continue to take kids and friends into the outdoors as passing it on doing it the right legal way is what I’ve always enjoyed doing and worked for. If anyone has a problem feel free to contact me directly and or unfollow me as (unlike what was stated) I don’t hunt/fish for followers and likes. Additionally, I had also recently learned directly from a warden’s mouth that this investigation was forced by his boss(es) over spite due to jealousy from social media posts and magazine articles I had written regarding California’s downward spiraling game management related to the protection of (over populated) predator issues and game regulations. Can’t make this stuff up. As I already stated the only gain I’ve ever wanted is the friendships created and shared in the field resulting in memories and good times. During this time I have gained a ton of support from my employers, friends and family who have stayed (in contact) with me knowing the truth and my character. I will keep doing what I do for the right reasons and live my life to the fullest with a smile, which I’m continuing to do in the outdoors.
I was seriously getting annoyed reading that whole article, I kinda wish you had the time and means to go after them (I wouldn’t either but I think you have grounds to do so) this is the type of stuff that causes people to dislike law enforcement.

that warden suspected you guys of wrong doing, went way too far and used way too many resources and got himself into a position he had to come up with something to show for his huge waste of resources.... I don’t like that warden and have zero respect for him... he couldn’t swallow his pride and walk away so he wastes more resources to make something.... anything stick... BS. That warden should have to answer for that, but instead, he pushed some BS technicality on you guys. If I’m reading into it correctly, the baiting charge is bogus, there was some trace of trail cam baiting pre season that they got you with, not active baiting.... stuff like this bugs me.

I feel for you... as deep as they dug into you guys and what they came up with more proves what you guys weren’t doing.... a ton of work by law enforcement and all they get is a couple BS technicalities

seems crazy to me, but I’m not horribly surprised.
If you kill big stuff on the regular, people talk, people get jealous and make stuff up, game wardens don’t like it either. I have a friend who is probably the best BIG roosie killer there is, and there has been more than one occasion people make claims to the game wardens and he has had to go out of his way to prove his innocence (which he has) what he does and where he does it seems impossible, but he’s always done it, and he is a super good dude that knows he’s always being watched and keeps killing huge bulls with his bow... people dislike him for that, even though he is as nice as could be and has proved allegations of wrongdoing false, people still spread lies and law enforcement will keep believing them... he has a target on his back because he’s more dedicated and good at what he does... weird times we live in. Everyone wants to be the best, but hate on those who work harder and do better.... I think it’s a form of entitlement, and it bugs me.
 
What's up, brother?

Yeah, it was crazy amount of resources for what they got. I also hate half-stories from both sides.

If they could've nabbed them for multiple infractions, they would have. At the same time, I'm not admitting to breaking a law that I didn't break.
Well said...

Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems like to me they over expended resources and needed something to show for it... like you said, nobody will ever know exactly what’s what, but I give these two hunters the benefit of doubt with what I read in this thread... I have seen this sort of thing before, a warden gets a crush on someone and puts way too much effort into it trying to get anything on them... maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think they were out there breaking the law.
 
Seems like these overzealous bunny cops should be sent to LA or Chicago. They’ll sort those gang/drug problems out in no time.
spoken like a poacher at heart, if not in practice.
 
The issue here seems to be the amount of time and money the state spent to catch these two.

That said, it isn't like some guy was quietly turning his private property into a deer haven while skirting the line on baiting. These guys were apparently quite good and quite loud about it and someone noticed.
 
Well said...

Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems like to me they over expended resources and needed something to show for it... like you said, nobody will ever know exactly what’s what, but I give these two hunters the benefit of doubt with what I read in this thread... I have seen this sort of thing before, a warden gets a crush on someone and puts way too much effort into it trying to get anything on them... maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think they were out there breaking the law.
I’m with you Roosie. Exception being, there was an Untagged animal. Baiting ? If you don’t have active hunting over bait, where’s your evidence ? I never saw where they were caught red handed. Just cause you own a salt lick that has like compounds in your home ?

That’s like saying a bank was robbed and the suspect has a same coloured bandana mask as the robber in his home. Not enough caught in the act evidence. The guys pleaded but why ? We’re they beaten into submission by finances ? Or guilty ? Michael Flynn showed us how this is done.


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Yeeeeah.... nice try jackass.
Well you didn't deny it. Just saying that's something I'd expect a person who has no regard for game laws to say. You kinda self-identified there. You obviously have no respect for game wardens which puts you in a special category in my book.
 
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Modern day game wardens are college educated professionals who take advantage of the latest technology. Those of us who pay their salaries to protect our wildlife resources and often the lives of hunters and fishermen, should not be satisfied with anything less. The idea that game wardens "took things too far" or were "overzealous" says more about those making the comments than it does about any game wardens. No place for that kind of talk from law abiding hunters in my book.

I'm guessing the ones saying those things also had no problem with Derek Chauvin taking things a "little too far"
 
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